DeHavEngThe vast majority of airworthy avons are ex-military. It is my understanding that military avons were overhaulled by the military rather than being returned to the RR. As a result a large number of the organisations out there operating military avons have the technical know-how to overhaul an avon should the need arise. The sticky point is the equipment needed to do the job which requires a significant initial financial outlay that is often prohibitive particularly if it is only for 1 or maybe 2 engines. With that in mind it is often more cost effective to scrap the engines and source a new(er) one(s). This is often the case and not as ludicrus as it sounds, most ex-military aircraft, when they are de-mobbed and put up for public auction, come with a pretty comprehensive spares list normally to include 1 or 2 engines depending on the engines usefulness to the parent service, i.e. can the engine be used in a different aircraft or is it type specific.
Back to the overhaul issue. The equipment necessary to do the job is the prohibitive part, very few operators can afford that outlay although afew can. I know of atleast 2 companies that have that equipment due to their high useage level of Avon engines. As to industrial Avons and aircraft Avons, while the 2 have some parts in common they are 2 seperate animals with alot of procedures and practices specific to each and not really suited to interchangeability. With regards to spares for the avon, airworthy spares are increasingly rare and often 2 or more engines are cannabalised to make 1 airworthy one. However, there are those moments when little gems pop up, everyone has read about farmers who have afew aircraft bits tucked away, and those few bits turn out to be complete airframes. The same is true with engines, there are people who bid on M.o.D. auctions with such enlightening titles as ’40 tons aircraft spares’ and sometimes those 40 tons will contain hidden treasures, complete engines still in transport containers (seals intact), mint condition undercarraige units, pumps, actuators and rams. But there also those times when it is useless junk.
DeHavEngMy reply pretty much the same as scorpions’! Cambria Covers are fantastic, relatively light weight, weather proof in any extremes, quick fastening (perfect if it just about to p**s it down), and tailor made to the aircraft, not a one size fits all, because invariably it doesn’t.
DeHavEngfuel costs are always a major limiting factor in the vintage scene. With the majority of the aircraft being run on a shoe string to begin with any increase in fuel duty has the obvious consequence of increasing the price of the aircraft for airshows. This in turn means that airshows will start to look at more cost effective options such as more light aircraft and a greater military presence (military fuel is at a considerably lower duty if not zero duty), rather than private warbirds and other vintage aircraft. Historically Jet A-1/AVTUR has always been cheaper than AVGAS I would imagine that this is due to some agreement between Airlines and governments to keep Duty on Jet A-1 low for the good of the industry and economy.
DeHavEngWas Just out shopping in coventry and hark what’s that I hear…big radials? Sure enough over thunders G-APSA in her new British Eagle Paint scheme obviously just lifted off from Coventry airport as low, fairly slow and very close to full power.:D
DeHavEngGreat to see G-DHZZ back in the air and in such a nice set of new clothes to! I can remember her at DHA looking alittle tatty and sorry for herself, fantastic to see the new owner is giving her so love and attention.
DeHavEngpossibly one of the yaks operating out of goodwood or shoreham? I know when I was based that way last year they’d pick hayling Island as a brilliant place to perform over and then depart due north. Doubt it was G-CBEL I live right under the flight path at coventry now and bust a gut to get outside everytime I hear something I don’t recognise.
DeHavEngSaid Fury now resides at Coventry with AA Classic Flight, ergo doubtful that thar be her. Possibly RNHF’s Fury? Lee Howard Where are you?
DeHavEngI suggest you talk to the guys at De Hav. At the time of my leaving they had 2 air start pods 1 of which was a go’er. The intention being to fit said pod to foxy and thereby not limiting her to airfields with an air start
DeHavEngDefinitly sounds like PRC. Best way to remove it is MEK, Light aero supplies sell it but it’s not cheap and you’ll need alot of it. It’ll melt PRC but you’ll need to get the excess off with a scraper before you use MEK. Been there done that, got the T-Shirt then put it all back with more PRC:D
DeHavEngFrom a engineers point of view the most hated has to be a Gnat!! Everything is either ****ing awkward to reach or utterly unreachable.
DeHavEngpossibly a formation light. Many uses, buddy refuelling being one as previously suggested. Or, and I’m out on a limb here, were sea hawks ever converted to drone tugs? in which case it could be a winch light.
DeHavEngCFS at coventry part of the Air Atlantique group. They will service most instruments and do all the servicing for Classic Flight’s intrumentation, engines, props and bits and bobs http://www.cfsaeroproducts.co.uk
DeHavEngYour welcome, same principles apply for ops/management as for engineering really. I would certainly recommend you volunteer first before jumping into the classic world though.
DeHavEngSpeaking from experience I would advise any newly graduated ‘Aircraft Engineers’ to find a job in the commercial sector before attempting to venture into the classic aircraft community. What you think you know is worth precisely nothing unless you have valuable hands on experience of the industry. I graduated in 2002 and spent 2 years just trying to break into the industry:( . As soon as you graduate sign on with a specialist aviation employment agency as a contractor, you will get a much broader base of experience than joining a company full time, you may spend alittle time floating between jobs but it will pay off.
For those Just leaving school, get an apprenticeship!! I unfortunately never had that luxury but it will give you such a better understanding than sitting in a classroom studying the theory. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve found myself thinking ‘I wish I had taken an apprenticeship’ when faced with something that is basic level and I’ve had to figure it out by myself (sometimes incorrectly:rolleyes: ).
If you are deadly serious about getting into classic aircraft I advise you to start volunteering at your local aviation museum. BUT and I cannot stress this enough ,get yourself some experience in the Aircraft Industry first, go to your local airfields and visit all the maintenance bases there, Sign on with internet agents, Join Job Agencies….anything just get that experience.
Some cold hard facts:
1: The Aircraft industry in general is not well paid unless you have licenses. The average starting rate is £18,000pa. The average rate after time served (3-5 years experience) is £22,000pa. The average rate for licensed engineers £26,000-£40,000pa depending on experience and licenses held.
2: Classic Aircraft maintenance is in a constant state of flux, the job that was there yesterday might not be there today.
3: Classic Aircraft maintenance is a niche market therefore there is not alot of career potential in it unless you are very very well connected.
4: Jobs in Classic Aircraft maintenance are nearly always word of mouth.
Those of us that do work in the classic aircraft world do so with the preverbial ‘Sword of Damocles’ hanging over our heads. I of course refer rather silly EU rulings, such as the Insurance debacle, that threaten to kill off the classic community. Most operators operate their aircraft on as thin a shoe string as possible (with some exceptions), and live a hand to mouth existance. With the EU ruling on passenger transport that is threatening to ground alot of passenger carrying classics the options are Air Displays (rapidly fading) and commercial contracts such as film work (very hard to come by). Couple this with a rapidly shrinking pool of skilled labour and the remaining options are very limited. Yes there will always be afew operators that are able to fund their collections from outside means, but they aren’t able to incorporate all the current classic aircraft into their collections. This means the customer base for maintenance facilities will diminish to the point that there will be 2 or 3 companies dealing with classic aircraft.
Honestly guys and girls get that experience under your belt first…then look at the Classic community long and hard. Then if you are still serious about getting into it volunteer at your local aviation museum, get some hands on experience of STATIC classics. Then either volunteer or get a weekend job at places like Duxford, A.A.C.F., B.A.M. (if it reopens), or somewhere that operates classics. I volunteered at B.A.M. and I was fortunate enough to be noticed by De Havilland’s and taken onto their full time staff. BUT I cannot stress this enough get your experience BEFORE you join the classic scene, I didn’t and I’m now having a long look at my future career.
If you do get in you’ll have a blast, it’s not all fun and games but it really is so satisfying to see something you’ve spent months on take to the air again after what is sometimes years of inactivity. We are the custodians of a nations heritage, we take pride in our work, we enjoy it and all we need in return is the sense of satisfaction we get from a thrilled airshow crowd and a living wage.
Thankyou and goodnight
DeHavEngI believe AA still has another 3 sat on the ground as well as the 2 airworthy birds. The one being broken up is most likely out of airframe hours therefore of no further use except as spares. That is unfortunately the way of the aviation world, one sacrifice for the good of the many.
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