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Pinko

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Viewing 15 posts - 991 through 1,005 (of 1,105 total)
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  • Pinko
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    I’m not sure that the J-11 in that picture is WS-10 powered. The WS-10 nozzle on the testbed FLANKER had exhaust petals considerable shorter than those on the Al-31F. The engine nozzles in the photo above look like standard Al-31F nozzles to me. Could be wrong though.

    OC, on the contrary, It’s different, let me tell you how to tell apart it, 1st, let youself see as many different Su27 bottoms then instantly switch your eyesight to this J11B picture, what’s your instinct will tell you? Yes, Fatty, the J11B’s nozzle part is considerably fatty

    Pinko
    Participant

    So eventually we see the J11B powered only by Chinese made WS10A taking off. Possible in Xian Yanliang flight test center, noted the WZ10 aside

    http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/Military_Pictures/J11B.jpg

    Pinko
    Participant

    China’s development of the middle thrust, T/W 8 grade turbofan attracts less attention both domestically and abroad. Some people name the engine as WS13 and codename as “Tianshan” another high rise mountain in North west China. Don’t like WS10, the pictures of the core engine of WS13 is available in the open source, here it is:

    http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_050809/130_87756.jpg
    Core engine of the middle thrust, T/W 8 grade turbofan

    http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/Military_Pictures/ws13coreengineontherig.jpg

    The core engine on the Test rig

    in reply to: Russian stunt pilots to fly through cave in China #2578453
    Pinko
    Participant

    Well, the hole is beckoning

    Well, the hole is beckoning

    http://image2.sina.com.cn/bj/upload/38/1076/20051028/537/107572/107587.jpg

    in reply to: Russian stunt pilots to fly through cave in China #2578456
    Pinko
    Participant

    Anybody speaks French?

    What does this say?

    I guess is the Su30 and Su27 will fly through the hole side by side?

    http://fr.cctv.com/program/journaldelaculture/20060228/100494.shtml

    Les voltigeurs russes bientôt en Chine

    cctv.com 06-02-28 10:46
    2006 marque l’année de la Russie en Chine et de nombreuses activités sont au programme. Les plus proches sont deux spectacles d’acrobaties aériennes très attendus, prévus pour les 17 et 19 mars à Zhangjiajie et Tianmenshan, dans le Hunan. Un avant-goût avec Wang Botao.

    Pour leur représentation en Chine, la Russie enverra deux de ses meilleures équipes d’acrobaties aériennes : les fameux Chevaliers russes et les acrobates de l’Institut russe des Vols d’Essai. Les Chevaliers viendront en Chine à bord de 5 avions de combat Su-27 et présenteront des vols en formation, tandis qu’un Su-30 et un ravitailleur Il-78 de l’Institut feront des pirouettes dans l’espace chinois.

    Les Chevaliers russes ont une place importante dans l’univers des acrobaties aériennes mondiales avec des avions lourds. L’Institut russe des Vols d’Essai, quant à lui, possède un des meilleurs avions de combat au monde, le Su-30. Plus de 200 médias chinois et étrangers couvriront l’événement. 6 télévisions et sites Internet, dont CCTV, la Télévision centrale de Chine, ont prévu la retransmission en direct de ces événements. Wang Botao, CCTV.

    Rédacteur: Baiyun Origine

    Pinko
    Participant

    A showcase of China’s advance metallurgy in aviation application.

    The 2-stage fan system designed for China’s next generation T/W 10 grade turbofan engine was in display at the last Zhuhai Airshow:

    http://www.war-sky.com/forum/attachment/Day_050831/130_96016.jpg

    Translation from the page in Chinese:
    2 stage high loaded fan system with a total pressure ratio of 4.27, enough for a T/W 10 grade Turbofan engine usually with 3 stage fan( Reduced 1 stage!). Blisk blades with carbon fiber reinforced plastics(CFRP) ring are used for making of the fan.

    For comparison: WS-10a is with 3-stage fan, F110 with 3- stage Fan and AL31F even worse with 4 stages.

    Pinko
    Participant

    But, isn’t the F110-GE-132 considered advanced??

    http://www.geae.com/engines/military/f110/f110-132.html

    Turbofan engine is identical by its hot section or some times called core engine, the F110/F100/CFM 56 etc utilize the same core engine which is the direct product of the ATEGG in 1980s, F119 more advanced turbofan had its core engine developed during the implement of the IHPTET. So the core engine of the F110 is just a technology typical in 1980s, hardly say it’s advance by today’s standard.

    The boost of F110 mainly achieved by applying modern technology modified Fan system which improves the airflow of the F110’s hot section or changed the by pass ratio of the old F110, thus boost thrust and reliability etc.

    Well the WS10A’s core engine is identical to CFM56’s and judged by that, it only reached the level that US achieved in 1985 at most, so there’s still a 20 years gap. The significant of the recent WS10A certification is , China solves Turbofan “ have” or “don’t have “ issue, the following core engine developments currently undertaken in china will serve the “catch up” job.

    Pinko
    Participant

    Perhaps China did learn a bit from the AL-31 but the core most definitely came from the CFM56 since the project started when the USSR was still an enemy.

    No doubt there are some Russian technologies used in WS10A but these technologies are legally transferred from Russian side and with endorsement of Russians

    1 vital difference between Sino Russian and Sino-US relation is in military field, Russia & China are in co-operation and US & China are in embargo state. The vital difference decides China dares to reverse engineering the hot-section of the CFM56 to become the hot section of the WS10 even as the US authority aware but China won’t make the WS10A just a copy of the Russian AL31F engine specially the Russians are quite aware of the development of WS10A, Here I quote Mr Richard Fisher ‘s report again (which I already posted in the 1st page of this thread), please pay attention to the highlighted:

    Russian engine makers appear quite familiar with the degree of progress China is making in its WS-10A advanced turbofan program, which seeks to make an engine slightly more powerful than the Saturn/Alyuka AL-31 that powers the Su-27. One source noted that China is still facing problems reducing the weight of the WS-10A’s primary and secondary compressors. In 2004 a Russian source noted the WS-10A was not meeting thrust goals, but that the engine might still end up in production.

    http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.78/pub_detail.asp#

    Since Russians engine makers are aware the WS10A but yet them don’t claim the WS10A is a copy of AL31F. one may argued the copy is with the Russian’s endorsement but think again, Those Russian even don’t allow an AL31F assembling line being set up in China how come they even go further to allow their gem being copied? So the claim that WS10a is a copy of AL31 is totally groundless. But ridiculous, when US authority (represented by its military) believes the CFM56’s hot section being REed while Russians never claim the WS10A is a copy of their AL31F, only the most irrelevant group claimed such without showing anything solid.

    Pinko
    Participant

    Instead of making logical explanation, they are trying hard & giving illogical assumptions on ws10. As highsea has said, they hasnt shown any signs of developing an advance jet engines. And repeated orders of AL-31 shows its long way away from such reality full stop

    As highsea said, how funny is that, congratulations! You just adopt another god. But to me, that’s no different, u’d better say as you said, because I know u better than that anonymity , so I’ll use ur concrete logic u love to use: before you come out any concrete proof saying that WS10 is based on any Russian core engine, I won’t answer any of ur nonsense

    in reply to: Pakistan AF News and Discussions 2006 #2579907
    Pinko
    Participant

    What the americans think (excerpt from a wide ranging article):

    http://www.strategycenter.net/resear…pub_detail.asp

    This is on the most recent trip by Musharraf to China
    Musharraf Visits China: Current Issues In Pakistan-China Relations

    Well, it’s a good summary of what we discussed recently in this board: WS10A’s recent certification, the impact of possible J10 export on the PAF’s acquisition of US F16, The China’s export, Musharraf Visits etc . 😀

    IMHO, if the US just willing to provide a F16 with only castrated AMRAAM—virtually an overpriced “sparrow”, then I think PAF could seriously consider the F10 offer: the price will be attractive compared to F16, since China will produce massive quantity of J10 in its whole production circle and will keep the unit price down. The ability of J10 ( except A2G) is comparable to that of latest F16 according to Mr Fisher.

    in reply to: Taiwan's IDF Fleet #2580790
    Pinko
    Participant

    What I would like to know is, with the experience gained from the Ching-Kuo, will AIDC be designing and building the next plane that will replace it and if so will the RoCAF accept it?

    From all that I have read, the plane has basically been a flop in service but was a good excercise for the industry who had never done this before.

    I was last heard the IDF development term was self disbanded after the IDF jobs because of no further substantial A/C jobs, some of their best tenants lost to South Korea for taking part in developing the T-50 trainer and some of them even embarked high fly jobs in mainland China

    Pinko
    Participant

    Well, we can’t deny the news of further import of 150 units of AL31F arose in Russia( True or not) does give us a new dimension to think its impact on WS10A “ Taihang” ‘s service status.

    However, I think even the news is totally true, as many posters here pointed out: PLAAF & PLAN got a large Su27/Su30/J11 fleet to maintain, at the number of 300+ and growing, Even the amount of 150 new units of AL31F won’t be the signal that WS10A can’t enter service side by side with those Russian made engines, no matter those AL31F s are for spare parts or new kits as SAC only stopped the contract for assembling further Su27 kits and no indication it will terminate the 200 units assembled Su27 overall.

    But after all, the above is our speculations, and analysis of 3rd parties’ news. However, I have to say my thread here is mainly follow up of direct news concerning of WS10A directly form its designer and manufacturer in the open sources which are the China aviation GroupI’s official website and its official publishing: the China Aviation News.

    The volume of WS10A’s initial production is small, as the General Manager of AVIN1 indicated this when he inspected the institute in charge of WS10a’s controlling system. The news can find in the AVIC1’s website dated on 1/Nov/05.

    He then said (Translated from the report’s paragraph 2) :

    http://www.avic1.com.cn/Chinese/xwzx/detail/20051101_8.htm

    ” An Engine ( Apparently refer to WS10A) will enter small batch production in 2006.”

    If the WS10A’s initial production just after design certification is small and SAC’s capacity is relatively large,IMO, some addition Russian engines to make more 3rd gen heavy fighters, say more Su27 assembled Kits( but with greater Chinese content) in addition to the J11B with WS10A are totally unsurprised.

    in reply to: China's News, Pics and Speculation Part 9 #2582715
    Pinko
    Participant
    Pinko
    Participant

    Well, the international trading of AVIC manufactured aviation products is carried out by AVIC’s im-ex arm —- the CATIC ( China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation )

    in reply to: Let's collect planes manufactured by third-world country~~ #2583000
    Pinko
    Participant

    …I guess I better ring John Howard and tell him he’s got some explaining to do!!!

    And he will tell you gently : “ I’ll ban you to that forum site” 😀

    No offence mate 😉

Viewing 15 posts - 991 through 1,005 (of 1,105 total)