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November 22, 2012 at 11:13 pm in reply to: Chinese Air Power Thread 16 #2280837

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1.5 billion bucks for 24 Su35 is not expensive, that works out 60 millions / bird. Considering aussies paid 6 billions bucks for the same quantity of superbugs 3 years ago. And India pays more than 100 million bucks for the latest batch of Su30 mki

November 22, 2012 at 9:37 am in reply to: Chinese Air Power Thread 16 #2281032

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Let’s put in this way:
Su35 is a good plane and certainly Chinese showed interesting, however, so far the news that Plaaf is (or will) procuring Su35 only comes from Russian media, and up to date official responses from China is made by Chinese ministry of defense, which denies China is (or will) procuring the Su35.

November 21, 2012 at 11:31 pm in reply to: Chinese Air Power Thread 16 #2281056

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…

The ‘Vedomosti’ report implies that Russian fears of the international market being flooded by cheap Chinese ‘FLANKER’ counterfeits hasn’t materialised, and appears to be an acknowledgement that counterfeiting Su-27Ks is more difficult and less economically viable than AVIC envisaged.

I agree, especially in (though not limited to) engines & radar.
Apparently, the Chinese side broke-off negotiations last time because the Russian press leaked details of the talks- so ssshhhh…

I guess the Russians see the $1.5bn deal as at least recouping some of the Su-35S’ programme development costs. Having said that, I’d still demand an up front payment in full (or at least a hefty deposit) in casenese cancel the follow-on batches having taken delivery of the initial 5/6 fighters.

Jō 😉

1. It’s common knowledge that Chinese have NEVER marketed the J11b internationally. The simple logic is if you never do a thing at first place, how you can find this thing happens is because you haven’t done it correctly as you accused ” that counterfeiting Su-27Ks is more difficult and less economically viable than AVIC envisaged. “?!
Like any low class China basher, you even don’t get basic fact correct by saying J11b is counterfeiting, the fact is J11b’s airframe is licensed copy as long as it doesn’t export, and Chinese honor the original deal and never seeking to export.

2. Chinese ministry of defense has openly denied China is in procurement of Su35. It think it’s quite clearly said as long as Chinese side is in concern, it doesn’t need to be said again n again in order to win a debate like some forum behaviors

November 18, 2012 at 3:44 pm in reply to: Chinese Air Power Thread 16 #2281921

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But the 1st batch of L15 from production will be powered by AL222-25 with no afterburner, while what i heard the latest prototype flow with the 25F version of powerplant with afterburner. Hongdu has so far placed order for 40 no afterburner AL222-25, after which will change to home grown 4700 kgf “Mingshan” turbofan engine.

“Mingshan” turbofan engine going to power L12/JL10 trainer

VP of PW shows great interesting in “Mingshan” engine dispayed at zhuhai

AL222-25

November 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm in reply to: PLAAF Thread 15 #2282884

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Footage of Z10 performing in Zhuhai

http://www.56.com/u30/v_NzkxNTI5Mzk.html

November 13, 2012 at 11:20 am in reply to: PLAAF Thread 15 #2282889

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PLA Army’s WZ-10 AH has made a demo flight over Zhuhai where the show is

November 13, 2012 at 9:02 am in reply to: PLAAF Thread 15 #2282904

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it’s a supersonic missile, looks like AA missle, probably where its design derived from.

Supersonic means GPS is unlikely, also no terrain mapping. also not tv guided, no laser guided. my guess is active radar.
…

By this definition, Pershing II must have been a subsonic missile, because it uses terrain mapping as the terminal guidance. LOL.

Can anyone tell this gent how fast the Pershing II is ?
Oh, yes, it’s not supersonic, but hypersonic.

November 10, 2012 at 3:53 am in reply to: How would you rank the worlds 5th genertion fighter designs? #2283457

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…
While the J-20 and J-31 are stealth designs, you won’t mistake them for what is being developed in the West or even in Russia. Frankly, it looks like the Russians have less to worry about that any other of China’s neighbors as the Russians will not lack an edge in quality or quantity. Unlike China, the West stealth products emphasize DEAD. I don’t see China being able to neutralize S-300 systems let alone the S-400’s coming down the pipe.

Guess what, LD-10 ARM will be the answer

November 9, 2012 at 10:12 pm in reply to: what is J-31 supposed to be? #2283497

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and quite obviously, Ukraine can also make jet engines that China relies on for its new stealth fighter and trainer.

Same hot air kind of comment as usual…

November 9, 2012 at 10:08 pm in reply to: what is J-31 supposed to be? #2283504

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thanks for this information. did not know J-31 uses Ukrainian engines or will use it (still using RD-33 variants right now)

Mars just invaded or invading ur house. Is that thankful info as well? 😀

November 9, 2012 at 9:58 pm in reply to: what is J-31 supposed to be? #2283512

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Just four UNSC permanent members(China excluded). Add Canada to the engine maker list.

Japan can make more dependable and reliable jet engine than China does and Japan is not called a jet engine power.

Yes, Japan does licence build F100-IHI engine, but half of its components still supplied by Yanks

November 9, 2012 at 9:35 am in reply to: Shenyang J-21/31/F-60/AMF thread part 1 #2283619

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LOL, as expected, this bird just an export oriented product, no way an ongoing PLA project will be showcased in public.

November 9, 2012 at 5:44 am in reply to: what is J-31 supposed to be? #2283681

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In connection with “J-31” can be interesting this:

Ukraine’s Progress-Ivchenko unveils lightweight fighter engine in China, ASIA PACIFIC

Ukraine’s Progress-Ivchenko design bureau has shown a completed design concept for a new fighter engine as speculation grows that China is working on a lightweight, single-engine fighter to supplement the heavier Chengdu Machine 2001/J-20 fifth-generation fighter prototype.

Designated the AI-222-95F, the engine is a 9,500 kg afterburning derivative of the AI-222K-25F that powers the Hongdu L-15 Falcon jet trainer. The engine “is a completed design that can be developed into a prototype engine within three years”, a Progress representative told Jane’s at the biannual Aviation Expo China held in Beijing in late September. “The engine was developed with the idea of being fitted to a new lightweight fighter that could be designed and built either in Russia or in China.”

http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Defence-Weekly-2011/Ukraine-s-Progress-Ivchenko-unveils-lightweight-fighter-engine-in-China.html

It will be thankful enough that vendor make the basic AL222-25F acceptable to the client so that the client’s L15 woos for so many years can be settled, letting along the much power up version 95f in hot air

November 9, 2012 at 3:25 am in reply to: what is J-31 supposed to be? #2283699

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So … the fighter exists to make use of the engine. And the engine exists because? I’m reminded of the line “if we had eggs we could have eggs & ham… if we had ham.” :rolleyes:

If it is indeed the case that J-31 has been developed in the absence of a specific PLAAF/PLANAF requirement — a thesis of which I am skeptical — then the project will live or die according to the interest (or lack thereof) expressed by those organisations over the coming months. The notion that an F-35-sized 5th-generation platform is just going to be thrown out there on the world market (like a Honda Accord) to sink or swim is ridiculous and displays no regard for the level of investment required vs. likely gains.

If major aerospace projects were feasible independent of commitments to buy the market would be inundated with fighters, airliners, etc. of all manner of adventurous design; to pick one specific example, Boeing would’ve continued to fund X-32 development themselves and F-35 would then have been tossed overboard in favour of the more conservative design at the first sign of trouble! And certainly nobody today would be pitching — let alone buying — souped-up Eagles/Flankers/Vipers/Fulcrums when more advanced designs are but a stone’s throw away.

It’s not egg-chicken issue but how much u understand this industry. There’re still only 5 nations in this world can make highly rated turbofan engines in this world and all happen to be permanent UN security members. Developing a new type engine takes long period based on many other advances on other industries like materials etc. A number of A/C designs can be built around one engine type or its derivative.

On the other hand, the so called J31 is based on a design that failed in the internal bid for SAC’s own bid for J20 project by PLAAF. In another world, just initiated project with the long in development engine project in mind at first place.

November 9, 2012 at 3:04 am in reply to: Job Cuts at Boeing Defense #2283700

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I would like to know when It’s LM’s turn. LOL
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