Linda,
I think the card you referred to is the Loss Card for this aircraft. These cards were raised for every aircraft that failed to return and were probably compiled at the Air Ministry, rather than at Group or Squadron level. The reference to “SEE” was merely to save the clerks filling in every detail, especially when they were recorded elsewhere on another Loss Card. Both aircraft were on ops to Frankfurt and here is the planned route;
5020N/0130E – 5015N/0800E – Frankfurt – 5000N/0900E – 4945N/0900E –
5020N/0130E – Beachy Head – Reading – Base.
Regards, Doug.
You could probably buy a copy of the Accident Record Card from Hendon, but it is doubtful if it would elaborate on the presence of the two Belgians, on board. I don’t know if the SAS base was at Malvern during WW2, as it was later.
Doug.
The ORB says the Belgians were undergoing air tests. Crash time; 1045.
Do you want the full crew?
Doug.
Many years ago, when the Yanks were still at Upper Heyford, Sally B was flying down from the north and requested permission to transit the Heyford MATZ. The controller couldn’t understand the callsign of “Sally B” and asked the pilot to repeat it and also the the aircraft type, which he did.
“I’m sorry, I am not familiar with that aircraft type, sir.”
The pilot of Sally B gave him a history lesson and offered to do a flypast, which the controller declined. However, someone in the tower must have bent his ears because, two minutes later, he was back on the air accepting the offer. I think Sally B did two flypasts and then departed, en-route. A very choked up controller thanked Sally B for a “Great show.” I don’t he will ever forget what a B17 was!
One other callsign I used to love to hear would make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. It was Speedbird Concord.
Doug.
I am in the process of doing that right now, as someone has kindly sent me the link. Thank you for your reply.
Doug.
Paul,
This aircraft was shot down while on approach to Croughton (satellite) airfield. It crashed near Tusmore Park, not within the park. If you send me a PM, I will give you the Grid Reference.
Doug.
Hi Jason,
I have Beaufighter V8702, of 141 Sqn, Wittering, which is recorded as diving into the ground, 1-2 mls S of Braunstone, Leicester, on 5th August 1943. Is this the one you are looking for? No idea of casualties, though.
Doug.
If the aircraft was intact, on hitting the ground, how do you account for the fact that KB224 is recorded as losing a wing in a violent turn, after control was lost?
Is there an engine serial number on the remains of the Merlin? It will be a six or seven number preceded by a letter A, but I expect you knew that. It is mentioned to give the information to other readers to this forum.
If you are thinking of going to Hendon, you have to pre-book a space in the Reference Library, unless they have changed the system. You may not find many answers at Hendon. Far better to go to Kew and check through 199 Sqn Operations Record Books, which are on microfilm. You will have to obtain a Reader’s Ticket when you arrive there and produce ID, such as driving licence. If you want info on where to find things at Kew, let me know.
In the meantime, if you give me his full name I could trace his date of commission and subsequent promotions.
Doug Cuthbertson.
Looks like a young Derek Piggott to me. The top man of British gliding.
Doug Cuthbertson.
Hi Linrey,
Even though the aircraft crashed in the vicinity of Monchengladbach, it does not mean it was hit near there. Let me submit this scenario.
May have been hit by flak or fighter, over the target, but still able to remain airborne. If one, or both, port engines were put out of action, the aircraft would drift to the left, because of the pull of the starboard engines. If this drift could not be trimmed out, the a/c would track south of the planned route. The pilot’s only concern would be to reach any part of England, and sod the flight plan. As there were no survivors, the loss must have been rapid. Maybe one of the engines caught fire, on trying to re-start it, and flames spread to the wing and petrol tanks. From other recorded cases, this would lead to an explosion, causing structural failure and instant loss of control.
I think it unlikely the navigator would have deviated from track, while outbound.
Regards, Doug Cuthbertson.
Not exactly identical flight paths. This was the planned routing for this op;
5250N/0330E – 5235N/0440E – 5238N/1004E – 5236N/1220E – Target – 5230N/1350E – 5255N/1350E – 5238N/1004E – 5235N/0440E – 5250N/0330E – Mablethorpe.
The pilot was on his 2nd op and had probably flown as a dickie pilot, shortly beforehand, so would have been on his 1st op as captain.
There is no mention on the Loss Card of a cause of loss, which is not surprising, as these cards were updated with information supplied from survivors.
Doug Cuthbertson.
Well, I think you have all had your say, by now. Here are the facts, which are taken from an, as yet, unpublished volume of a book series.
PA970 Mk3 LQ-Y 405 Sqn Gransden Lodge. T/o base 0657 hrs on the 8th, for le Havre, as Master Bomber. Bomb load; 6 x 1,000, plus 6 Red TIs. Hit by flak, at 3,000′, over the target. All eight crew baled out. Seven landed behind allied lines and returned to the UK, some two days later. The R/G landed in enemy held territory. He was captured and held in Fort Tourneville, le Havre, until liberated by allied troops on 12th Sept.
Pilot; W/Cdr Howard Allan MORRISON, DFC, J/4898, RCAF. From Winnipeg, Manitoba. Enlisted there, 25/9/40. DFC as S/Ldr, 405 Sqn (LG; 15/9/44) DSO promulgated 27/10/44, with this incident being cited. Continued in the RCAF, post-war, and awarded the AFC, during the Korean War (LG; 5/6/52), plus the Queen’s Coronation Medal (LG; 23/10/53)
Nav; F/Lt Linton Wilson QUEALE, DFC, J/24216, RCAF. Born in Stranraer,
Saskatchewan. Resided in Victoria, possibly British Columbia. Enlisted there, 28/5/37. DFC as F/Lt, 405 Sqn. (LG; 15/9/44). Bar to DFC, as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 8/12/44).
Visual A/B; F/Lt Ross Bernard BARONI, J/19400, RCAF. From New Ross, Ontario. Enlisted RCAF, 24/10/41, Halifax, Nova Scotia, on transfer from the Royal Canadian Artillery. DFC as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 13/10/44). Bar to DFC, as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 16/1/45).
Specialist Operator; F/Lt Reginald Arthur SWARTZ, DFC, J/26343, RCAF. Born West Lorne, Ontario. DFC as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 15/9/44). Bar to DFC, as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 8/12/44).
F/E; F/Sgt, R. A. W. MATCHAM or MATSHAM, 1604454, RAFVR.
WOp; W/O, G. J. D’ARCY, R/154763, RCAF.
MU/G; F/Sgt, R. BOREBO, R/191174, RCAF.
R/G; W/O 2 Waclas KUBIAK, R/132761, RCAF. Born Montreal. Enlisted there, 15/10/41, on transfer from the Royal Canadian Artlllery. DFC as P/O, J/89016(LG; 12/12/44).
Far be it for me to mention the book series, but you could type my name into Amazon. It may come up with a title, which could possibly be listed on eBay.
Doug Cuthbertson.
F/Sgt Douglas William BALE, 621402, RAF, was awarded the DFM, as F/Sgt, with 97 Sqn. No specific citation, other than the standard “For gallantry and devotion to duty in the execution of air operations.”
His commission to P/O, 51331, was promulgated in London Gazette 27/4/43, effective from 4/12/42. To F/O, 4/6/43, and F/Lt, 4/12/44. Awarded the DFC, as F/O, 619 Sqn. LG; 7/12/43. Standard citation. Transferred to the Admin & Special Duties Branch 17/7/45, as F/Lt.
Regards, Doug.
It was not uncommon to have Naval officers flying as Air Bombers. They were on detachment from HMS Daedalus. In my records I have two others. One was a Lt, and another was a Sub-Lt, both with 106 Sqn. Whether they were on permanent attachment, or there to gain experience, before returning to the Navy, is not clear.
Regards, Doug.