Mexican Air Force, retires the last T-33´s

After 46 years of service, last July 13°th 2007 Mexican Air Force finally wrote off the remaining Lockheed T33 t birds wich gave sterling training service for 46 years at sq´s 202, 210 ,211 and 212. The first one arrived at Mexico city airport in 22 sept 1961.

By the end of the 90´s the surviving aircraft, about 12, were concentrated at Ixtepec Oaxaca at squadron 402 wich now has no arcrafts and is on hold to transition to PC-9.

This is the 45 Years aniversay scheme wich they were retired.

Actually those were conventional rockets, who were welded fakes for president to see. The true naval missile is the one I showed up the thread. wich is bigger, and has missile look alikes. Pic taken from a sermar power point.

It´s very early o say if we´ll buy bombardiers, just because the plant is here, It´s not the kind of jet FAM buys. And certainly is not obligued to do so.
What is very probable indeed is proliferation of self adopted and developed industry, off course depending on its success.
The naval missile, the uav wich might be the most important asset of this fad, and flak vests developed by the army.

I can´t forsee future, but I can assure you that we´ll never build american fighters. No one would let a third party to build such estrategic part of your defenses. If the US would like such option a lot of countries would be subcontracted doing that now.

Build components by certification is one thing, to build the whole fighter is diferent, particularly with classified technology, exposure of espionage, not having the industry at home, and risking your vital industry to eb easily atacked. NOt to talk the diplomatic problem, cause they would like us troops to be in the spot. It would be a mess. Very un realistic apreciation for this days. Past beongs to the past, today things are diferent.

Politics do affect economics, the only point i said is due to politics the Russian proposal was not accepted and due to politics and economics mexico destroyed its initial aircraft industry; Mexico in 1920 was at the level of many european nations, in fact Mexico sold even products to the Japanese empire in the 1930s, if only Mexico would had followed a correct policy Mexico would have become a aviation power like Germany or France, however you like it or not the US aircraft industry was interested in destroying its competitors and that included Mexico`s initial aircraft industry

Well is not about you or me likening it, it´s just the past, I do not intend to get stuck with it, by sliking past wounds you don´t do no good on the present by loking back, often you end crashing.

Russia wanted to transfer technology to Mexico and i can assure just by looking the Brazilian experience the Russian tech transfers are better usually than the Western ones because the Russians are always willing to transfer more technology,

Good for Brazil, in here conditions here were better for other than for russians. the would´s and coulds are no good to nobody and have no real use.
They could be more willingly to give away technology, well this buissnes is about profits, not giving away technology. One of the sad ways of the world. It´s called competition and free market.

The naval mexican Flanker most likely would had given excellent technology for the money, the Mil-8 also would had given an excelent oportunity for the Mexican aircraft industry, the same can be said about the Antonov proposal.

I don´t intend to lost time in things that never happened. What I know is that they didn´t had enough money to settle propperly, so I wouldn´t like to give them my tax money via Governament for them to do try an adventure and profit. That was a wise desition from govt.
Bombardier did just the other way, moe money, more action than talking. This is buissnes pal.

However happily for latin american, Brazil is adquiring lots of technological transfers, EMBRAER IS THE FOURTH LARGEST AIRCRAFT MAKER and in Mexico a new policy is aimed at achieving some parity with Embraer.

Cool for brazil, I don´t care much about them, I care about my own country. Science is an issue of other, not defense agencies. You are just gessing about the future. I wouldn´t be so shure.

Dude Bucarelli tratis are a myth, and out dated, every mexicn know that, don´t bring them cause they aren´t worth. Mexican subcontractor have been doing spars for f-16 long time ago and other similar deals.

the mexican goverment is corrupted to the bone

So as any governament in the world, It´s the game russians couldn´t affford it, sorry.

The case of the navy secretary is only the case of a guy who was going beyond the limits imposed by the system, the kick backs by Bombardier are stronger than the kick backs by Mil or Sukhoi. same happend in Brazil with the FX program when Embraer by preassure of Dassault stalled the Sukhoi bid.

Imposed? pardon me the constitution is imposed? you mean legal, and he went beyond those legal limits, thus violating law. You complain about corruption but you try to justifie the guyand the service you like by sayin law violation with sof words. But he did corrption, and not by mistake. No body forced him, he did it on his own.

Maturin

With all due respect you do not know the real capabilities of the mexican aircraft industry niether the history and current trends of the aerospace industry in Mexico

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With the same respect mate, I dont´have to know each and every detail of the capabilities, because they are not relevant, nor make any real difference. What I know in detail is the capabilities and policies of the ones mastering such capabilities.
Without the propper pilitical and financial support all your capabilietes and good for nothing.

The Armada the Mexico is promoting the development of the aerospace industry in Mexico, they have several programs now they have a project for the development of a naval surface to surface missile, the new UAV will become part of the armada`s inventory, the Mil Mi-8 plant was for the armada and the Training center for the Mi-8 was set for the Armada in Baraja veracruz naval base, in fact the plans to develop the factories for the manufacture of Mi-8 were for the Armada, the armada also sponsored the light mexican aircraft Tonatiuh in fact i think the armada not only built the Lancair and Rotorway helos but still i have read operates the few Tonatiuhs remaining, that is the only mexican aircraft built in mexico currently operated by the mexican armed forces

Hold on, space progarm with the Navy? that is not true, You are overestimating and over talking here. Perhaps you are a naval fan, but be fair and honest. All the programs in the navy are of not such importance and magnitud as you are estating.

First there is no such “plant” of mil mi´s, there is a second level support workshop.

Lancairs and rotor ways are designed and buils unarmed in the US by a recreational company, they are what is called a garage plane. Navy bought them, and bought the oven to assemble the pices. President Zedillo finished the program, though the only 2 planes are in mid level operational status and the only helo is also in the same category, doesn´t mean navy created science.

The current mexican government has opted for Bombardier`s plant in Queretaro becasue it does not anger the US in fact it goes well with NAFTA, the Mexican navy did not get the Flankers not because they did not want them simply it is more politically correct to buy western stuff.

Dude I told you a hundred times. Naval flankers didn´t arrive cause former navy secretary did funds miss treatment. Bombardier stablished so fast because they had something russians didn´t: MONEY and investors.

Please, this thread is not about how wonderfully the navy is doing a few projects, with not big importance, yes there is the naval missile, a firing system, the new uav etc. Cool, really, but lest wait until results. You are overestimating and ditracting the main issue realy high.

And if you could take care of all your problems with some Mavericks and Sidewinders, I’d agree. I somehow doubt, however, that Gulfstream put battle durability on the top of thier design attribute sheet. I think if you had to get close enough to do a visual ID, I’d rather do it from a F-5 or Gripen.

The corrosion proofed Frogfoot is a VERY interesting idea, though… What kind of A2A intercetion range would it have, with a couple SRM’s and no tanks???

Seems to me that the general idea has not been taken on. Mexican Airforce does not do any interception by default, Mexican Air force do elint support and interception only when the Police couldn´t do it.
Most of the time we know that ilicit flight´s come right after they took off in central and south america by a radar and intel network, then we have spare time to plan the interception.

Police generally uses Super King Air, metros, helos and other small turbos and jets to do chases, they intercept the flight, follow it and coordinate a party in land to do the bust if it land, but most of the time this flights just launch the cargo and return or land in remote areas.

There are sometimes when air force is called but is not the regular procedure, but when surprises arrise they´r called to go up and take a look and it has happened with pilatus pc-6 pc 9´s t33 and f5´s, and when called roe forbid oppening unles shot upon.

So, we have all the tools to do the job, and they work just right, is not like we ain´t got any hardware mates. Ilegal flight interception has got a police job status, they do the close job while af coordinates and support.

The only twin possibility that wouldn’t carry a Super Hornet or Rafale pricetag and wouldn’t cause relational issues might be an attempt to get low-hour legacy Hornets from the US. I’d think those might end up being a maintenance headache for Mexico, though, as they’re almost sure to be well-used (like the Hueys). I just don’t see that option as being terribly practical.

Actually a couple months back, was received a US navy comitte with legacy hornets, wich wasn´t accepted because hornets were old, heavily landed and the deal didn´t include any kid of upgrade, improvement or overhaul.
No cookie..no laundry

Mexico already has E-2 Hawkeyes, as I said a few posts back.

Yeap, ex isarelies, both operated by the navy, while the airforce has 3 embraers, 1 erj 135 and 2 (i cant remember) :rolleyes:

Dear Mig, those are some cool declarations but lets be realistic , they belong to a non state plan, they are most in the field of education and science, but they are far away from true political will to set a strong industry. Though interetsing ¿what else would you say at le bourget? Sadly I don´t see nor feel conditons in Mexico. Just take a look at the budget for science.

Perhaps the simplest solution would be to simply rely on patrol aircraft and surface to air missiles? If they spot a drug smuggling aircraft, fire off an SM-2 or S-300 missile! :diablo:

Well interception is not a task for the Air force, it belongs to the federal police, AF is support and elint,but it can be summon to intercept.
ROE does not allow AF pilots to shoot unles shot upon, and that did hapen in the past, when some shots were recived by Kalashnikovs from some aircraft. And pc-7´s shot them down. But most of the time is just survelliance and gruond interception.