While very interesting, i do not think this thread is the proper place to discuss hotdogs definition of the meaning of the word “sexy”.

And for the record, both rafale and PAK-FA look sierra hotel in my eyes :diablo:

top aerobatic aircraft should posess agility in another league than supersonic fighter aircraft carrying tons of fuel, weapons and electronics.

I think if it were used with boom & zoom tactics in a target rich (read 1975 fulda gap) piece of sky, it might have pretty much rocked indeed. Mig 23 lacked good AoA and turn rates as well, so when its kinetic performance was matched by the teen fighters, it was outclassed.

(dog)fighters come in two sorts: boom & zoom and turn & burn. The first sort needs excellent kinetic performance, roll rate and instantaneous turn. The second sort rely on excess energy, turn rates both instant and sustained and roll rate. Roll rate is a constant here. Try dogfighting something that rolls quicker than you. It sucks.

So yes, while there are way more important statistics than roll rate in a fighter craft, especially if we also take into account BVR combat and e-war, it is most definately not something to be ignored imo.

Maximum speed is not only about thrust and drag. The F15 has intakes that are engineered for a high mach number. They have lots of movable parts and are excellent radar reflectors.

The upper speed limit of both the F15 and the F22 is not the thrust to drag ratio, but a structural limit. Fly any faster, and the friction heat of the onrushing air will melt or degrade the aircraft enough to make bits fall off.

T-50 has moveable parts in its intakes, so its likely that those alone will make for a higher mach number, especially if the rest of the airframe is engineered to cope with the heat.

Firestarter!

Gentlemen, please try and keep it civil in tone.

I wish i could travel into the future and see the su-50 that this t-50 prototype will evolve into. Between the T-10 and Su-27 there were considerable differences.

As many as they need. You’d be surprised what a positive trade balance does for your national spending power…