E f-ing W!

Gents, would it be too much to ask to take this **** to the PLAN thread, and return this thread to its orginal topic?

That was Greek frigates being sold to Pakistan, not you two having a technical knowledge pissing contest!

Thank you.

Unicorn

This motion seconded.

French service:

Vought F-8 Crusader
EMPTY WEIGHT 19,925 lbs (9,038 kg)
MAXIMUM TAKE-OFF WEIGHT 34,000 lbs (15,422 kg)

Dassault Super Etendard (Standard)
EMPTY WEIGHT 14,330 lbs (6,500 kg)
MAXIMUM TAKE-OFF WEIGHT 26,455 lbs (12,000 kg)

Brazilian service:

McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
EMPTY WEIGHT 10,465 lbs (4,747 kg)
MAXIMUM TAKE-OFF WEIGHT 24,500 lbs (11,115 kg)

Other alternatives:

HAL Light Combat Aircraft (replace Sao Paolo by ADS eventually?)
Weight empty: 12,125 lbs (5500 kg)
Max Take-Off Weight 27,560 lbs (12,500 kg)

AMX-ATA
Empty Weight: 14,837 lbs (6,730 kg)
Max Take-Off Weight 28,660 lbs (13,000 kg)

Vought A-7 Corsair II
EMPTY WEIGHT 18,942 lbs (8,592 kg)
MAXIMUM TAKE-OFF WEIGHT 42,000 lbs (19,051 kg)

Dassault Rafale
EMPTY WEIGHT 19,973 lbs (9,060 kg)
MAXIMUM TAKE-OFF WEIGHT 47,399 lbs (21,500 kg)

Boeing / McDonnell Douglas / Northrop F/A-18 Hornet
EMPTY WEIGHT 23,050 lbs (10,455 kg)
MAXIMUM TAKE-OFF WEIGHT 56,000 lbs (25,400 kg)

Mikoyan Mig-29K
Empty Weight: 24,030 lbs (10,899.8 kg)
Maximum Take Off Weight: 49,383 lbs (22,400 kg )

I thought I read somewhere that India had signed rights to build the LM2500 some years ago?

You might have a point there … it does sound vaguely familiar …

Air India does overhaul a lot of their plentyfull CF-6 engines in its Engine Overhaul Department ….

All very well, talking about relative capabilities. However, what ship has the best chance of actually being deployed by PN in the next, say, 5 years? (that’s combining capability with availability and money).

Whether a ship is mediocre or not would seem to me to depend on it’s relation to it’s intended tasks. Mediocre by USN standards may be perfectly adequate by other navy’s standards (and defence needs). PN needs to replace old ex-UK Type 21’s. Compared to the 6 Amazons and a couple of Leanders, any class of new ships with a standard fit of 8 SSM, 8+8 SAM, 2x triple ASW tubes, medium calibre gun, some light cannon and a heli presents an improvement. Why would PN need signicantly more capable ships? Would these have to be General Purpose ships or would some role specialization be more usefull? Within what overall strategic posture?

So has the deal been called off?? Somehow I don’t see PN going with all chinese surface ships.

No, not necessarily. Just that there is no new development since last year

It has been about a year since the Dutch government answered questions from parliament regarding this deal with the statement that the Dutch government had not been approached by the greek government for permission to re-export dutch built S-frigates to Pakistan. AFAIK this situation has not changed. My best guess is that talks are still ongoing between Pakistan and Greece.

The systems integrator (Fincantieri) doesn’t build the engines, but is experienced in designing propulsion systems using this engine (Cavour has the same engines, as do other ships it’s built), & in working closely with Avio (formerly Fiat Avio) which builds (not just assembles) them in Italy. BTW, Avio is a development partner of GE, not just a licensee. It does not need any US technical support, & would be capable of replacing any US parts.

AFAIK, the LM2500 is counted as civil technology. It’s sold for industrial applications, fast ferries & other civilian applications, as well as warships. I expect India thinks it (1) unlikely to be embargoed & (2) easy to circumvent any hypothetical embargo, because of all the civil LM2500s out there.

The LM2500 is license-built in Japan by Ishikawajima-Harima, and in Italy by Avio.

Avio signed contracts with the French shipyard DCN and the Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri for the 27 LM2500+G4 turbines, starting with the option for the first 8 which will be delivered between 2008 and 2013. Avio SpA is owned by the US Carlyle Group.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/03/avio-lm2500g4-turbines-formally-selected-to-power-fremm-frigates/index.php

GE Energy will provide OAO Mordovcement the first two LM2500+G4 aeroderivative gas turbines in Russia. They will be utilized at the Mordovcement power station, located in Mordovia republic near Saransk, and the electricity produced will be used to power several cement production facilities. The gas turbines will be manufactured at GE’s industrial aeroderivative gas turbine facility in Evandale, Ohio
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=21085