I wonder if we bought any weapons with them :diablo: ….

they look nice, but i think smaller vessels would be more usefull in a belgian defense senario, I don’t think belgium should invest alot in Blue water ops, now we have 2 frigates, meaning 1 available at any time, nice vessels with potential no doubt, but unsufficient for guarding and controlling the bussiest shipping line in the world. Another wasted investment with our limited budget, but what do you exspect with our current minister of defense…………

buying 4 visby class (or alike) class ships would have been more usefull, as they have far reduced operation costs, if we still had shipyards in belgium they could have been build here under licence (good for the economy)

anybody have the right procurement costs of the dutrch frigates to compare? (inclusing the overhaul cost)

a visby costs 185 million $, if what i found is correct, being 139 million euros each, the 2 dutch frigates cost 250 million euro’s (for the 2, so 125 million each), but are second hand, have twice the crew and will be worn out in 10 years. I’m not the best accountant, but i think we were had by the dutch, thanks to the “”brilliant”” strategy of our minister.

Is that what the Belgian navy’s task is? Guarding and controlling the bussiest shipping line in the world? I.e. the English channel? That’s a rather narrow view, IMHO.

4 Visby (with no helicopters) vice 2 Doorman (with helicopters) … pfff, what improvement?

You could have had Doorman’s to begin with 10 years ago!

Doorman’s kick a$$ with the best of em.

In March 2004 Defence Minister George Fernandes said that the Indian navy will likely induct its first indigenously built aircraft carrier in 2011. Furthermore, by August 2004, both Defense News and Jane’s Defence Weekly were reporting that the Indian Ministry of Defence had awarded a $30 million contract to Fincantieri’s Naval Vessel Business Unit to help prepare the concept, design, and implementation plans for the vessel. The Italian company was awarded the contract over DCN International of France, who had originally won the contract for the design study in 1989, and Izac Construcciones Navales of Spain.

This is the most prestigious project which the Indian Navy has taken up so far. The design and construction of ADS is a technical complexity which far outstrip any such challenge faced hitherto by the Indian Navy. It is interesting to note that so far only three countries in the world have built such a large carrier.

Fincantieri, through its Naval Vessel Business Unit, signed two contracts with the Indian shipyard of Cochin; the contracts relate to design and assistance during the construction of a new aircraft carrier, the “Air Defence Ship”, for the Indian Navy. One of the most important players in the Indian shipbuilding industry, Cochin shipyard is active in the field of merchant and naval shipbuilding as well as ship conversions and repairs.

The first contract covers assessment of the entire ship’s design and responsibility for “propulsion system integration” in addition to providing assistance to the shipyard during installation of the engines and during the successive phase of tests of integration and sea trials. During the development of the design a team of officers of the Indian Navy and engineering experts from Cochin shipyard will work in Italy together with Fincantieri technical staff at the headquarters of the Naval Vessel Business Unit.

The second contract regards the supply of the engineering and detailed design of the ancillary propulsion systems and the ship’s main plants. Again, Fincantieri will provide the shipyard with assistance while construction is in progress and during tests and trials.

The two contracts were expected to cover approximately 2 years, although assistance will continue until the trials and delivery have taken place – scheduled to occur by the end of this decade.

As of 2004, the most recent design had SAMs in VLS (Vertical Launch System) cells mounted on sponsons on either beam – the port side is to the aft of the ship while the starboard sponson is to the fore of the ship. Four OTO Melera 76mm Super Rapid dual purpose guns are mounted symmetrically on sponsons along the flight deck- two on the fore section and two at the fantail (stern). Preliminary sensor fit appears to show a Top Plate 3D radar on the mainmast and a large 3D radar antennae of a yet undetermined type, along with the usual SATCOM and Electronic Warfare antennae. CSL will use a modular approach to reduce construction time from nine years to around six to eight years.

This last design iteration shows much influence from the Italian Andrea Dorea Class carrier (currently known as the Cavour Class) in that there is much sloping of the superstructure and ship sides. The vessel will be powered by four HAL-built General Electric LM 2500 gas turbines driving 2 shafts. With a 12 to 14º ski-jump, the carrier has a STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) arrangement on an angled flight deck with 2 aircraft elevators – one before the island and one after. In the STOBAR arrangement, the aircraft lands on the angled-flight deck and is stopped by arrester wires. The air group was projected to consist of at least 12 – and possibly 24 – combat aircraft like the MiG-29K, Sea Harrier and Naval LCA along with 10 or so helicopters of the Sea King Mk.42 and/or the HAL Dhruv. Two Ka-31 helicopters would provide airborne early warning coverage.

This ship can carry a maximum of 30 aircraft and 17 of these can be accommodated in the hangar. The ship will have two runways and a landing strip with three arrester wires. The ship has a length of 252 m, maximum breadth of 58m. draft of 8.4m and a depth of 25.6m. The ship will be propelled by four LM2500 gas turbines generating a total power of 80 MW (120,000HP approximately) thereby enabling the ship to do a maximum speed of 28 knots. The ship will have an endurance of 7,500 nautical miles at 18 knots and the logistic endurance of 45 days.

In April 2005 India began building this indigenously designed aircraft carrier that will take eight years to complete. The keel laying is scheduled in October 2007. The ship is expected to enter service in 2012. The ADS is being built at Cochin shipyard.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/ads.htm

Hi Gollevainen,

that´s why I use Photoshop, because of the multi-layer function and because I know how it works (at least I think I do). Otherwise the program is kind of overkill for the purpose. If you want the freeware version try Gimp.

If you have already drawn some ships I´d be happy to see them.

As for the Spanish Leanders see this thread:

http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm4.showMessage?topicID=1362.topic

All the best.

Ah, a variant with rear mounted Tartar … more akin to Baleares/Knox-mod.
Nice drawings, pretty ships them Leanders even after all these years!

May be, but Thales-APAR is essentially a fire control radar working in X-band. It’s backed by the more massive SMART-L for “volumetric search”.

Reading the articles posted by zajcev seems that there are two possibilityes for volumetric search: a japanese AESA (may be already in development) or the SPY-1F(V) PESAR (may be an stopgap solution).
The FCS-3, in any case, would be the fire control radar.

Regards

APAR can track up to 250 targets at one time, and at the same time can function as a illumination radar for up to 16 targets (with 32 missiles in the air). Instrumented range is 150km in air search and 75km horizon search. The SMART-L has a maximum instrumented range of 400km. Low observable targets can be detected at 55km and a conventional target beyond 100km. . The ADT track file can carry up to 1000 air, 40 surface and 32 jammer tracks simultaneously.

So I predict that the Klub will be an export failure… The only vessels that will carry the Klub is the current Talwar class.

Sorry to have to disappoint you ….

India has ten Type 877EKM (Sindughosh Class). The Indian vessels are fitted with the Novator 3M-54E1 anti-ship missile as part of the Club-S missile system. Range is 220 km with 450 kg high explosive warhead. The vessels are also to be fitted with the Novator 3M-14 Land Attack Cruise Missile, also part of the Club-S system.

Reportedly, an air-launched variant is being examined by the Indian Navy to arm it’s long-range Tu-142M maritime patrol aircraft. The 3M-24E (NATO: SS-N-25) AShM remains the most likely replacement for the BAe Sea Eagle AShM. The 3M-51 with it’s heavier warhead, longer range and much higher terminal velocity will compliment rather than compete with the Sea Eagle’s successor. The 3M-51 reportedly uses a high-level cruise profile, with a dive to low level followed by the discarding of the main motor assembly. It’s not clear how far along the missile is in the platform integration and testing cycle. Given the strong visual similarities, existing design history, and available reports it seems likely that the same two stage approach and active seeker seen in the supersonic 3M-54E would also be used in the 3M-51. A truck-mounted version of the missile, for coastal defence, is planned by the Novator Design Bureau.

In 2002 the PLA Navy signed a US$2 billion deal with Russia to purchase eight more Project 636 submarines, increasing the total number of the submarine in its inventory to twelve. These submarines are reported to be armed with the Russian Klub long-range, anti-ship missile system, which poses a serious threat to surface ships. The first of the eight submarines was delivered to China on a heavy-lift ship in August 2005. The last submarine is expected to be delivered in 2007. The eight new Project 636M submarines currently under construction in Russia are reported to be fitted with the Novator 3M-54E submarine-launched anti-ship missile as part of the Klub-S missile system. The missile has a maximum range of 220km and a 450kg high-explosive warhead.

Fokker F-27 tail?

Absolutely!

3x Al Manama
2x Muray Jib

😎

It does have a similar aspect.

I suppose that similar ships, designed to undertake a similar role, will end up with a one or other of a small number of realtively optimised shapes and forms.

Thus the Mig 29 and F-18 are structurally similar, or the Concorde and the TU-144.

Unicorn

Well, yes and no. All frigates look alike and yet they are all different.

You have to look further: location of the stacks and other items on the ship, for example. Relative size of superstructure, shape of it. etc I could have put a Dutch LPD image there and it would have looked much more distinct.

Tupolev 144 is a poor example of your point:
“The development of the Tu-144 is claimed to be closely related to industrial espionage against the French company Aérospatiale, which was developing Concorde, although the Tu-144 flew first. When Sergei Pavlov —officially acting as Aeroflot’s representative in Paris—was arrested in 1965, he was in possession of detailed plans of the braking system, the landing gear and the airframe of Concorde. Another agent named Sergei Fabiew, who was arrested in 1977, was believed to have obtained the entire plans of the prototype Concorde back in the mid-60s. However, these were early development plans and would not have permitted the USSR engineers to come up with their own aircraft; the plans could only serve as a general indication of the work of the Concorde design team.”