GUYS GUYS GUYS, I must remind you that this thread only opened again to talk about Naval aviation, not to discuss ship comparrisons, you’re gonna get it locked off again, please I emplore you, be carefull!!!

Remind me that when I start discussing the latest corvette of frigate I don’t forget to mention it has an helicopter :p :diablo:

i personal prefer PdA it has cleaner looking lines with the small bridge. are thery any other euro carriers being built apart from the CVF/PA2 cavor and BPE? would the neatherlands be in a market for a small LHA or pocket carrier?

Note, though they are getting a second helicopter capable LPD to augment the first . The Enforcer line of ships designed by Royal Schelde of which these LPDs are part does includes throughdeck LHD variants that could in principle operate VSTOL jets as well.

Israel has no need for a ship as huge as a 5000 ton , They are looking at a heavier Saar type ( 3000 tons ) . Secondly India does not have a , most of the weapons including Guns, Engines, Missile & Electronics/Radar are procured from Russia or are western lic prod variant except for EW and ESM systems,navigation radar , sonars ( its not too clear that Russian Missile are cleared for Israel). IN does the system integration job though of Indian , Western and Eastern system.

What will Israel do just buying the Hull and the again taking the Hull to Europe or US for fitting, Its most likely that US will built such ships just as they built the Saar 5 for Israel of course since US funds it they would rather built it.

I understand the need for a ship this size is limited and feasibility politically speaking low. But Israel itself is capable in the area of comprehensive weapons system and electronics. What the ship would need is some Mk41 for Barak-8 foreward (inplace of current Shtil SRL), standard Barak 1 VLUs (in place of Kashtan), an Indian licencebuilt 76mm gun (in place of russian AK-100), and some western lightweight ASW torpedos. Could mount either Harpoon, Gabriel or another airbreathing AShM missile of Israeli design (Popeye Turbo) in place of Club or Brahmos.

PdA is more of a pure carrier in the vain of the invisable class. isn’t the PdA alot smaller than garibaldi and has smiler amout of av8s?

Garibaldi
Length 180.2m
Beam 33.4m
Depth 6.7m
Full load displacement 13,370 – 13,850 tons
Aircraft 18 x Agusta Sikorsky SH-3D Sea King helicopters or 16 x AV-8B Harrier II aircraft or combination
Hangar: 110 x 15 x 6 meters (accommodation for 12 helicopters )
Flight deck 173.8m

Principe d’Asturias
Overall length 195,9m
Beam 32m
Height 9.45m
Full load displacement 16,917- 17,190t
Fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft 25
VSTOL aircraft Up to 12 AV-8B Harrier II and Harrier Plus carried
(usually 10 AV-8B/B+, 6 SH-3H, 2 SH-3H AEW, 4 AB-212)
Hangar 2,300m² (full length & width )
Flight deck length 176m

Invincible
Overall length 210m
Overall width 36m
Depth 8.8 m
Full load displacement 20,500t
Aircraft 20 VSTOL and helicopters (usually 9 Sea Harrier, 9 Sea King, 3 Sea King AEW)
Hangar full length & width, 3 bays
Length deck runway 170m

[Barak-8 Related]
Navy mulls new missile boats

By Amnon Barzilai
Haaretz Correspondent

The Israel Navy is examining two new missile boats, Saar 5+, and a new Barak 8 sea-to-sea missile system for defending ships over ranges of more than 100 kilometers, after incoming Admiral David Ben Besht decided to cancel a plan to acquire 10,000-ton warships. Also under consideration is joining the U.S. Coast Guard or Navy in the planning of new missile boats.

The navy decided to cancel a decision made by outgoing Admiral Yedidya Yaari to buy a large warship some 10 times the size of the Saar 5 boats that are the core of the navy. The warship would have had long-range capabilities as well as room for many helicopters, unmanned airborne vehicles (UAVs) and a significant number of missiles. But Ben Besht decided that the Gonzilla project, as it was known, was not suitable to the Israel Navy, and instead he decided that the navy should stick to Corvette-class ships, such as the Saar 5.

The Saar 5+ boats will be twice the size of the 1,300-ton Saar 5, weighing between 2,800 and 3,000 tons apiece. The navy wants more space on the ships for more advanced radar systems, for protection against planes and missiles as well as enabling horizontal storage of missiles on board.

But the craft the navy imagines is not available “off the shelf,” which led to the idea of entering into a joint venture with the U.S. Coast Guard, which is building 24 missile boats at Northrop Grumman. The company is inviting the Israeli Navy to join the project and thus lower the development costs of the boats, which will cost between $160 million and $180 million. Another option is a U.S. Navy project – for which Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics are competing – to build a fleet of missile boats to defend the U.S. coastline.

Meanwhile, the navy wants to acquire a new generation sea-to-sea missile system called the Barak 8, to be produced by Israel Aircrafts Industries. The missiles would replace Barak 1 missiles, which have a range of only 10 kilometers, while the new missiles would be able to defend the ships carrying them from over the horizon planes or missiles. The new missiles that the navy wants are also supposed to be jam proof. The development of the missile system is estimated at $200 million to $300 million.

The Defense Ministry is trying to find foreign partners for the new missile system to lower its develop costs to the IDF, which has a new weapons development budget of $300 million to $400 million – hardly enough to buy new missiles or two new submarines. But the navy expects that the next multi-year plan for the army will include enough money over the 2008-2013 period to purchase the missiles.

Source: Haaretz

Should Israel ever decide to go for a full sized frigate, would acquiring a version of India’s P17 frigate be an option (considering the co-development of Barak-8)?

There’s more stuff on the web about variolus squadrons that trained there, including from UK and South Africa.

This is Shivalik launching. Note the difference in the lower part of the bow?

Satpura

Sahyadri

Bethlehem Shipbuilding Company’s “Victory Destroyer Plant” was located at Squantum, Massachusetts, not far from Quincy. This large facility was built during World War I to mass-produce destroyers on indoor shipways.

Quincy, named for Colonel John Quincy, is a city located in Norfolk County, Massachusetts and bears the nickname “The City of Presidents”. Sailing ships were built in Quincy for many years, and the final known clipper ship built was in Germantown in the 1870s. The Fore River area became a shipbuilding center in the 1880s — originally owned by Thomas Watson of telephone fame — and many famous warships were built at the Fore River Shipyard, including the aircraft carrier USS Lexington (CV-2), the battleships USS Massachusetts (BB-59) and USS Nevada (BB-36), and the USS Salem (CA-139), the world’s last all-gun heavy warship, which is still preserved at Fore River as the main exhibit of the United States Naval Ship Building Museum.

Dennison Field in the Squantum section of town was partially developed by Amelia Earhart. In 1910 it was the site of the Harvard Aero Meet, only the second air show in America. It was later leased to the Navy for an airfield, and served as a reserve Squantum Naval Air base into the 1950s.

The Uk’s 849 Naval Air Squadron first formed on 1 August 1943 at Naval Air Station Squantum, Massachusetts with 12 Grumman Avenger torpedo, strike and reconnaissance aircraft but has its origins with the naval Wing of the Royal Flying Corps from 1912. (see: http://www.royal-marines.mod.uk/static/pages/10201.html)