These are definitely Russian.
Russian Tango class (TYPE 641 B)
here’s comparison:
Wanshan,
the torpedo amount shud not worry u as what these are meant for is to strike the opponents fleet, so that means even one of these with a couple of escorts from other SSKs wud be a damn good force to deal with.
Well, I don’t know. I wouldn’t let this type of SSK be escorted = more subs = greater chance of detection. Considering both American and Russian underwater strikeplatforms have their own ASW, I would think this would have some too, and just 6 fish ain’t enough IMHO. Also, it seems an odd arrangement of tubes and reloads. Why bother with 4 tubes and just 2 reloads. Instead, I’ld have chosen 6 loaded tubes w/o reloads (max. instantaneous firepower, no reload hassles) or 2 tubes and more reloads (economize on tubes).
That’s no a whole lot of torpedos if just 4+2. How will it protect itself then against other subs? Or is it 4 tubes (=4 fish) plus 2 reloads for each tube (= another 8 fish, making a total of 12 torpedos to complement 10 missiles)?
Adelphi
What – if anything – is projected to replace Sao Paulo around that time? To you knowledge, is cooperation with India for a replacement an option? While BRazil opted for the ex-French carrier, did it consider new-builts e.g. with Spanish or Italian assistance?
“Le 15 décembre 1999, la flottille 12F a été mise en sommeil. Elle s’est effacée avec le retrait définitif du Crusader F8-P qui a vaillamment rempli ses missions d’interceptions depuis 1964.”
F8s retired in 1999. They still looked pretty decent back then, considering they logged 148000 flight hours.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/474065/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/472806/L/
Rats! Totally discounted ex-UK Sea Harriers, Harrier GR9s, and ex-USMC AV-8Bs/AV-8B-plus. With some upgrading … 24-32 of those plus ASW and AEW heli’s and/or aircraft …
Apparently, Foch/Sao Paolo can operate (i.e. launch and recover) aircraft up to a gross weight of 20000kg, which rules out SU27 variants, as well as fully laden F18 A/C/E and Mig29K (while maximum loads are ruled out, these could still be operated at lower ‘normal’ loads though).
Frankly, it’s beansoup to me what kind of aircraft the Brazilians put on Foch. Realistically, the possibilities include pre-owned like ex-US naval jets (A4, A7, F18A/B or C/D) and ex-French (Super-Etendard, F8 Crusader – strictly also a ex-US jet) or new-builds. That includes matured Su-33 (too big?), Mig29K, Rafale-M, F18 E/F (too big?) and naval LCA development. Yet further options are ‘future projects’, including navalized AMX, Goshawk/Hawk200, etc. By the way, the plane I’ve been missing in these discussion so far is CTOL and STOVL versions of F35.
Foch and Clemanceau. Interesting: Fouga Magister trainers on deck (not normally considered a carier-based/capable aircraft)!
Rafale taking off from Foch (that there is the “ski-jump” installed for tests)
Foch as Sao Paolo, with A4s, Tracker, Sea King and Equereuille: what ski-jump?



I’m sure the Italians could be helpful with that, as they are involved with the design for India’s ADS, which is based on the Cavour STOVL carrier but CTOL. Seems logical for Brazil to work with India both for carrier and its fixed-wing aircraft complement. Brazil could put in for a version of ADS to be delivered after vessels for IN are done. By that time, Foch should be in need of replacement.
Which F18 version did France test? Hornet (A/C) or Super Hornet (E). The former’s empty weight is 1200kg more than Rafale-M, the latter’s empty weight is 4000kg more. For both versions of Hornet the difference with Rafale-M is mainly in take-off weight (i.e. fuel and weapons load : difference of 10000kg for A/C and 6000kg for E).
Burger, you left this out:
“1993 : the Foch was modified to be able to test the Rafale M : a small ski jump placed at the end of the bow catapult and a OE-82 system were installed. “
by the way
http://frenchnavy.free.fr/ships/aircraft-carrier/foch/foch.htm
Now if you continue insisting that the Rafale is too new for the “old” Foch, then what sense is making a new AMX variant worth while for the “old” Foch.. the Brazilians might as well save money to purchase a more capable carrier (which in itself isn’t a bad idea too)
How many Rafales can be carried on Foch and what tempo of operations can she sustain with them? One of the appeals of A4 Skyhawks or similarly aircraft is that a fair number can be carried because they are smaller and lighter. This would be good if the primary role is fleet air defense. Just looking at the options for acquiring a jet similar to A4 but more modern.
After all, what does Brazil NEED Rafales for? What threat? Which theatre of operations? When’s the last time you saw a Brazilian carrier steam into the Persian Gulf to or the Mediteranean to kick some unfriendly butt? So, does Brazil really NEED Rafales?
If developing a naval version of AMX is ridiculous then what is putting a top of the line jet like Rafale on an old carrier that is known to be only barely able to support it? Now THAT’s a smart alternative ….
A quick way to come up with a more modern, affordable alternative to A4 Skyhawk that doesn’t take up too much space may be to mate the T45A Goshawk airframe with the HAWK 200 sensor and weapons suite. For something more potent, perhaps Brazil should opt-in on the Indian naval LCA? That it, if it is decided to not acquire and update ex-French Super-Etendards (or even F8 Crusaders).
I don’t think CdG has rafts but no shipsboat(s) other that carried in hangar.
Her Commanding Officer was Oberleutnant zur See Gunter Rabe and she was assigned to the 9th S-Boot Flotilla (commanded by Korvettenkapitän Götz Freiherr von Mirbach, one of the most famous S-Boot commanders of the war) to reinforce their presence in the Southern North Sea. They operated out of Rotterdam until mid-February 1944, when they re-deployed to Cherbourg in order to reinforce the 5th Flotilla (under Korvettenkapitän Bernd Klug) in their operations throughout the Central and Western Channel area. Throughout her service, her radio callsign was “Rabe” (Raven), her dashing Master was known by all in the 5th and 9th Flotillas as “The Raven” and she wore a ship’s crest incorporating a raven in addition to the usual 9th Flotilla sign.

Baltenschwert of the 9. Schnellboot Flottille

You can just make out the Baltenschwert behind S130’s starboard torpedo tube. Not sure what else is there

UW 10 from here
I’ld love for the IN to get Hawkeye. Just going over all possibilities.
Erieye as nothing to do with the Indian EMB-145 platforms. The EMB platforms have been ordered so that an Indian radar can be put on them.
India is developing its own electronically scanned array radar and needs a platform to mount it on. Nothing to do with Swedes over here. Hawkeye is a whole different story.The India AEWCs will go to the AF first (at least the first 6). After that it all depends. However the navy needs organic AEWC capability and hence I see E2C as the only possible choice. Besides if a land based solution was good then IN would not be asking NG for carrier compatibility tests.
Is Ericson perhaps involved in the development of that Indian radar or will it perhaps be a similar concept to Erieye?
You said a key thing there: the first 6 AEWC will go to IAF. The navy can have organic AEW by means of the Ka 31. It is logical for IN to see if Hawkeye fits GOrshkov but that doesn’t mean it will be put on board.