Yes i am aware of the refits of both carriers, but thats what they are, refits and bit of structural mods.

Its pointless pointing out what the Baltic yards did in the cold war, as the most they do these days are Frigates & Corvettes.

Why do you think Russia is buying the Misral ?, becuase it lacks the skils to design and build their own class and need the off the shelf design to re-educate and train personel again replacing those skills lost when the money ran out at the end of the eighties !.

If it is pointless to point out what was built through the late 1980s early 1990s, then it is also pointless for Russian e.g. to make a deal with Ukraine so that once again it can have access to the capabilities of Nikolayev (which after all hasn’t buit anything substantial naval in the past 2 decades). In other worlds, there is no short term solution for building carriers in Russia or former-CCCP countries. Meanwhile, China is embarking on a carrier building venture with no more experience in this area than what it has been and is doing to Varyag and study of a pair of Kievs and a single Melbourne. And yet nobody seems to doubt their ability. Oh, but wait, they builld large commercial ships too! Mmm, and Russia and Ukraine don’t? Besides, isn’t that comparing apples and oranges, as some have pointed out, with carriers being much more complex?

In sum, I’m not at all convinced by these ‘lack the skills’ arguments. If they can still put together very large nuclear submarines, like they do, that makes them quite capable in my book. At least compared to some other nations.

Would you fly bottled water from the USA to Germany?

If it’s Polar Bear brand, heck yeah! :D:diablo:

come to think about it.. how well does the Naval Tejas and Gorshkov supposed to operate since the Tejas probably won’t have good range, or a heavy A2G load, and its carrier doesn’t have any granites or other surface missiles.

Mig-29K vs Naval LCA
Crew: 1 / 1
Length: 17.3 m / 13.20 m
Wingspan: 11.99 m / 8.20 m
Height: 4.40 m / 4.40 m
Wing area: 43 m² / 38.4 m²
Usefull load: 5,500 kg / 4000 kg
Loaded weight: 18,550 kg / 9,500 kg
Max takeoff weight: 24,500 kg / 13,500 kg
Powerplant: 2× 88.3 kN / 1x 85 kN
Wing loading: 442 kg/m² / 221.4 kg/m²
Thrust/weight: 0.97 / 0.91
Range: 3,000 km / 3000 km

What the Mig-29K will never have to face Landbased Types?:rolleyes:

The Mig-29K is inferior to both the Rafale and Super Hornet. Let’s alone future 5th Generation Types. That are already in service or will be in the very near future.

Not all landbased type likely to be faced are of said caliber. Quite likely the opposite. US and France cetainly and even UK and Italy have typically used their carriers against inferior air forces (relatively speaking). For Russian power projection, that could well also be the case.

Besides, prior to Falklkands, who would have given (Sea)Harrier much of a chance against Mirage III and Isreali dericatives operated by Argentina? Yet, they did quite nicely and proved very valuable. And even if they weren’t the ideal asset, any aircover is better than no aircover if/when you’re venturing beyond the reach of your landbased aviation.

The first aircraft will be heading to Eglin AFB to begin training in March of 2011!

F-35As, not C’s that is. The first F-35C was rolled out on 29 July 2009. In October 2010, the United Kingdom decided to change its F-35B order to the F-35C, which will be used for both land and naval operations. On 6 November 2010, the first F-35C arrived at US Naval Air Station Patuxent River. The C variant is expected to be available beginning in 2014. The larger wing area allows for decreased landing speed while increasing both range and payload. Don’t know how it affects A2A capability (I suspact bigger wing may reduce agility somewhat relative to A-version.)

Russia claims the PAK-FA will enter service by 2020. Remember, the Kuznetsov is going into an Extensive Refit from 2012-2017. If, it can be complete in time. Which, is not likely with Russia’s past track record.

From: http://www.en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100928/160747881.html

The appearance of a fifth generation fighter in Russian naval aviation will not happen before 2020, the outgoing head of the air forces and air defense forces of the Russian Navy, Lt. General Valery Uvarov told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.
Previously, representatives of the armed forces command and Defense Ministry had said a new naval fighter based on the Sukhoi T.50 design could enter service around 2016.”

It’s difficult to say when this aircraft will enter naval service. First it will go into service with the air force, and then be ‘navalised.’ To build a new aircraft from scratch costs huge money, it’s irrational and not competent. Conditions might be suitable by 2020,” he said.

Uvarov stressed, however, that any new naval fighter would enter service only following a competition in which other designs would participate, including from the MiG, Yakovlev and Sukhoi design bureaus.

A new generation carrier fighter should enter service with the fleet not long before any new aircraft carrier on which it would be based, Uvarov said, so pilots would be ready. “The aircraft should come before a ship entering service, so pilots can train first on land, then on a special training area, then on deck,” he said.

He stressed that the service was still waiting to take delivery of the naval MiG-29K, which is being exported to India.

“The first two MiG-29Ks will soon be purchased in order to carry out development of their functions,” he said. “I think there should be two squadrons, that is 24 MiG-29Ks and one squadron of Su-33s.”

The Russian navy is currently reforming its structure, with naval air forces and naval air defense being merged into one branch. Lt. General Uvarov is leaving his post as commander of both branches.

1) I.e. already 4 years delayed, and who is to say no more delays will follow …
2) There will be alternatives and a competition i.e. it remains to be seen what those alternatives will be and how timely & expensive they will be and what Russia can afford at that time
3) Such new aircraft would be based on new carriers (rather than an old refurbed carrier)
4) Kuznetsov will fly (modernized) Su-33 and Mig29K.

In 2010, Sukhoi developed a modernised version of the Su-33; flight trials began in October 2010

PAK-FA vs Su33 vs Mig29K
General characteristics

Crew: 1 / 1 / 1
Length o.a.: 19.8 m / 21.94 m / 17.3 m
Wingspan o.a.: 13.95m / 14.70 m / 11.99 m
Wingspan, folded: ? / 7.40 m / 7.80 m
(*. PAK-FA wing woud have to fold quite close to main body to achieve similar measure for folded wings, which may be difficult given the wing shape)
(**. besides folding wings, su-33 and mig 29k also feature folding nose radome and tailplanes)
Height: 6.05 m / 5.93 m / 4.40 m
Wing area: 78.8 m2 / 62.0 m² / 43 m²
Empty weight: 18,500 kg / 18,400 kg / not less than 12,723 kg, more likely 13,300 kg
Loaded weight: 26,000 kg / 29,940 kg / 18,550 kg
Useful load: 7,500 kg (combat load) / 6,500 kg / 5,500 kg
Max takeoff weight: 37,000 kg / 33,000 kg / 24,500 kg
Powerplant: 2×75kN. / 2×122.6 kN / 2×88.3 kN
Wing loading: 470 kg/m2 /483 kg/m² / 442 kg/m²
Thrust/weight: 1.19 / 0.83 / 0.97

US logistics train has traditionally been huge, about time they become more supply-efficient. Much the same situation as with general energy use …

Quite right somebody was mixing his Forts up.

Happens to me all the time 😀

Daewoo Shipbuilding Stock Gains on $1 Billion Asian Contract for Warships

Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co., the world’s second-biggest shipyard, rose to the highest in more than two years in Seoul trading after announcing it received an order worth $1 billion.

The South Korean yard received an order to build five warships for a Southeast Asian country, it said today in a statement, without naming the buyer.
Full Story

Which Southeasy Asian country ordered 5 ships with Deawoo?

Why is the RFA Fort George being scrapped?

There have to be takers for a ship like that!!! Scrapping sems a DUMB option.