The day Typhoon will be superior to Rafale is not yet there…

former BAe AirOps director praises Rafale.
March 24 2005 at 3:50 PM
No score for this post Thunder (Login Fonk)
France
click on links to see pictures…
——————————————————————————–

I have prepared this little brief in order to counter the constant “Typhoon (or sometime) F-35 are best” brain washing we have for a good while now and to allow any new comers to make up a more accurate picture of the reality.

When the Eurofighter consortium claims to have designed the “most manoeuvrable fighter in service in Europe (EADS 2004), they don’t expect you to know otherwise, it simply recovered automatically from a ppitch movement of an amplitude of 70*: Not bad, but not best and that by a fair marging of more than 30*AOA and a few years.
So, some guys at EADS and Eurofighters are trying to convince us as well as themself (and potential customers), of their capabilities in airtcfat design, regardless of the fact that the experience could be a little below ten to one in Dassault favour, then ignoring historycal facts and hoping that we won’t look eslewhere… As a reminder, Typhoon was born from a serie of specs but mostly one maker’s draft and design features was retained: The German Company MBB.
As early as 1988, MBB designed Typhoon’s which actual features show only a minor difference, it was a twin tailed aircraft and became a single fined as a weight saving measure, all other designs from partners were rejected on the gound that they were inferior.
http://img17.exs.cx/img17/3138/MBB.jpg
“Programme re-examined in 1992 following German demands for substantial cost reduction and studies of alternative proposals, which submited in October 1992; Italy and Spain froze EFA work mid-October. Seven possible alternative configurations for New EFA (NEFA) offered to Germany, being permutations of single (three types) or twin engines; canards; and crancked wing. Only two of seven cheaper than EFA – both inferior to developement Mig-29 and Su-27”. Extract from Jane’s All the world’s aircraft, so it is pretty clear which of the Eurofighter’s partners had the highest level of expertise at the time, partly thanks to the work on a German/US joint hyper-manoeuvrable programme, the HIMAT….
The other manufacturers, incapable of coming with anything better, did retain the all set of arrangement, even when Germany provisoirly withdraw from the programme, BAe and Aliena did retain most of Typhoon’s actual features but ran into trouble when they changed the aircraft wing design from a simple delta to a crancked one. The final aircraft reverted to MBBs original concept to the full and this fact is there for all to see, including drafts, pictures of the aerodynamic and wind tunel test models etc. All my “claims” are well documented by either (British mostly) specialised press or the world’s specialist in civilian inteligence i.e. Jane’s, but for the purpose of puting things right this time i’ll use an article writen by former BAe AirOps director (Chief test pilot for the Typhoon programme at the time) Chris Yeo plublished in Flight International 1999.
Anyone can get a back copy of it simply by giving a ring to the publisher, your choice.

Last 1999 report Test:

In the Falcon bringing me to Istres in order to fly the last born of Dassault fighters, I think it is an honour and an happiness to take part to a mission in such a modern and efficient fighter : the Rafale.
Lets it be clear : it is neither a trial nor an evaluation, but a demonstration of the weapon system capabilities in the guise of an attack mission a Rafale F2 pilot could execute.
My pilot will be Philippe Rebourg, assistant chief test pilot in charge of the Dassault Aviation military aircrafts department. Philippe Rebourg has accumulated more than 5000 flight hours, graduated in the Ecole de l’air and flew on Mirage IIIE, attended the USAF Test Pilot School course (1990A promotion) at Edwards. He flew 400h on the Rafale (and additionally 700 on gliders).
Our aircraft, B302, is the third of the production aircrafts and the second production two-seater. She made her first flight on December 1999 and is used for F2 standard development. She is equipped with a RBE2 electronically scanned radar from Thales with air to air and air to ground modes and, depending on the needs, SPECTRA electronic warfare system, front sector optronic (OSF) or direct voice input (DVI).
For this particular flight we have a development OSF with the TV sensor only. Neither the SPECTRA nor the DVI will be available on this flight.
With 2 Magic II acquisition rounds, 2 MICA EM fakes and one 1250L supersonic tank under the fuselage, our weight is 16400 kg. The external tank bringing the kerosene capacity at 6550L is limited at mach 1.6. B302 is motorised by 2 SNECMA M88-2 Etape 1 engines of 7500 kgp thrust each.
Every flight on a fighter begins by a passage to the equipment service for the necessary ejection seat briefing, reception of the flight suit, fire resistant underwear, G suit, special gloves, helmet ‘
This mission being considered as an experimental flight, 2 test engineers will monitor our evolutions from the test room. Thanks to the data link they will constantly listen radio communication and talks in the cockpit.

Approaching the Rafale I’m immediately stricken by aircraft dimensions. The time of the small Dassault fighters is well finished. Here is another world : even the air version landing gear is massive, cockpit is very high and the fin culminates at 5.34 m.<

We are welcomed by Jacques Izquierdo, chief technician in charge of the B302. At Dassault, test pilots are totally confident in the technicians and the pre flight check has no raison d’être.
With a bit of an excitation I climb into the rear cockpit, taking care not to walk on the canard foreplane. With the help of Klaüs Brückner, the technician, I trap onto the Martin-Baker Mk16F zero-zero ejection seat equipped with a very simple harness, an advantage over the Jaguar MK4 or the MK10 of the Mirage F1 and 2000. The Rafale is equipped with an integrated legs and arms safety system minimising wounds in case of an high speed ejection.
Rafale has an OBOGS system eliminating the need for dangerous air supplying and an integrated cryogenic generation system avoids liquid nitrogen stock and manipulation.
Another new item, the centralised safety system allows the pilot to put automatically every jettisonable load (weapons, tanks, flares, chaff ‘) on ‘safe ‘ from the cockpit. An artificer is no more needed at the departure or the return of an armed aircraft to safeguard every load with a pin.
Although the fighter is equipped with an inboard APU the start is effected with a GPU at Dassault flight test center. The procedure is very simple : you only push 2 switches from ‘stop’ to ‘idle’ and turn a ‘rotacteur’ to the right then to the left (inversely to start the left engine before the right one, there is no preferential order). Then, everything is entirely automatic and M88 are ready in less than 2 minutes.

Philippe Rebourg selections the INU mode (inertial navigation unit) on the left screen and ask me to launch the gyro alignment sequence using the touch sensitive screen. After exactly 4 minutes the 2 SAGEM INU are aligned. For an emergency take-off a quick alignment is achieved in 1.30 min, precision is less but can be considerably enhanced by GPS hybridisation. The Rafale integrates a comprehensive navigation system with mission computer + trajectory elaboration computer + INU. Not less but 600 nav points can be programmed and the system computes automatically the trajectory, flight times, fuel availability according to the consumption.
While Philippe Rebourg achieves pre flight checklist and test-instrumentation checks I examine the cockpit. The ergonomy has been particularly worked out by engineers and the pilot has a very carefully designed interface. The instrument panel is dominated by the wide angle (20° x 20°) high resolution (1000 x 1000) display, collimated to the infinite. The 2 touch sensitive LCD on either side of the central display have a 500 x 500 resolution. On the left console a small touch sensitive display is used for selection of air to air or air to ground modes while an auxiliary display is used to verify automatic pilot modes. Every visualization is NVG compatible and the forward scene is recorded by a camera placed under the wide angle holographic HUD (22° X 30°) and visualized by the back-seater on a video screen with the associated symbology and crosshairs. The pilot can dialogue with the plane manipulating HOTAS, touch sensitive screens, a touch-pad, DVI (inactive today), and the 2 ‘allumettes’ (matches). These are two commands protruding from the instrument panel and being manipulated without releasing the throttle and stick. Impulses toward the left, right, up or down call primary menus on the lateral screens.
The plane is equipped with an auto diagnostic system, warning the pilot every time an anomaly being able to affect the mission happens (level 2 breakdown ‘).
After having tested the FBW system we are ready to taxi.

Approaching the runway, Philippe Rebourg signal to arm the ejection seat with the lateral security switch.
While I lower the 2 visors of my helmet Philippe Rebourg aligns the airplane on the runway 33. The Rafale is so powerful that it is not possible to use the maximum dry thrust while braking : the friction coefficient is not enough to stop the plane and tires would be damaged.
The best technique is to go from idle to full afterburner while releasing braking. The FADEC manages every engines parameters without any human intervention. As on the Mirage 2000, the Jx, the longitudinal acceleration value at take off, appears on the HUD and shows that the engines give their optimal thrust. At 130 knots Philippe Rebourg pull the trigger up and we do a cool take off after 700 m.
After a few seconds we reach our transit height at low altitude.
First impressions : the cockpit is very spacious and the ejection seat very comfortable. Even if the 2 canard foreplanes hide the ground from the rear seat, visibility is excellent and I can easily see at six o’clock.
With the Alpilles ahead of our plane and the mount Ventoux starboard, we turn at 400 kts and 1000 feet toward Arles and our first nav point, before heading north. During transit, Philippe Rebourg shows me how flexible the navigation system is. ‘At every moment, if the orders were modified or the tactical situation changed, the pilot can quickly elaborate a new flight plan.’
For the needs of the stand-off attack demonstration, a virtual configuration comprising two SCALP under the wings is created. During the preparation of the mission, a special software has determined the geographical shooting domain in order for the missiles to overfly their first nav points. Approaching the fire zone, Philippe Rebourg selections the attack mode and the air to ground page is displayed on the left screen. The symbol ALN appears on the HUD, meaning we have to initiate the alignment of the SCALP INS. As I have learned in the simulator, I launch the procedure by a pressure on the touch sensitive screen. A new order appears on the HUD, remembering the pilot to jink in order to align the missiles gyro ; Philippe Rebourg banks the plane and pull the trigger : we go in a turn to the right then to the left to come back on our track. Before firing, I have to launch the SCALP engines, not too soon to spare some fuel. On the central display the huge domain, crescent shaped, is displayed and as soon as we enter the pilot pull on the stick to begin a steep climb maintaining the speed vector of the HUD between the 2 vertical tendency bars. This climb is essential as the pylones are designed to jettison SCALP under positive loading factor. Philippe Rebourg push the release button simulating the shooting of the 2 missiles and egress immediately to the left as, during a real attack, collision with the SCALP flying at the same speed than the aircraft can happens. As soon as the missiles are released, their wings deploy and they begin their travel to the target.
‘The air to air and air to ground functions can be activated simultaneously, says Philippe Rebourg. It’s the real innovation giving the Rafale her superiority on her concurrents. During the SCALP attack, the air to air mode was active with radar and OSF dedicated to this function. Naturally the radar tracked some targets and the OSF has locked the target classified as the most dangerous by the system.
—————————————
Only one push would have been sufficient to engage this target. The complete firing sequence can be realised through the auto pilot by simple imputs given with the coolie hat of the stick. On the Rafale, the auto pilot is completely integrated to the flight control system : it is part of the command chain like the airbrake function for example.’
After the simulated firing we egress at very low altitude and Philippe Rebourg engages the automatic terrain following system. The hills of the Vivarais mountain are an ideal environment to demonstrate this capacity. The 2 secure maps of the multi corridor navigation system elaborate continuously 2 trajectories, either with the data of a 300,000 km² digital file over the ground or with the information of a radiosonde for sea travel. A ground profile is calculated over the further 10 km, allowing the plane to sneak under the radar cover, automatically, day or night by all weather. This totally passive system allows flight at 300 feet, this altitude being only temporary, final objective is 100 feet. The RBE2 has a 3D mapping mode permitting flight at very low altitude over a terrain not recorded on file.
Before flight, Philippe Rebourg has selected the desired flight altitude, 500 feet in this sector, and has added 100 feet, the height of the higher artificial structures in this zone. According to the discretion needed the pilot can choose between 3 flight options : soft, medium and hard. In the hard mode, the loading factors are almost doubled in comparison with the Mirage 20000D and N and the speed domain is considerably larger. For this flight the soft option was used to take care of myself. At 450 knots the plane is remarkably stable. ‘The anti turbulence mode, once envisaged, has finally not been installed as the FCS has proved to be perfectly able to manage wind gusts when jumping crests.’
A revolutionary anti ground collision system is being developed for the F2 standard. Thanks to the digital file, the onboard computer knows the exact altitude of the plane to the ground. In case a dangerous situation arises, for example if the pilot becomes disoriented in dogfight, in the clouds and dive to the ground, the system will warn him and he can pass in the terrain following mode. In the F3 standard the computer will be able to automatically switch to the terrain following mode to prevent crash.
————————————-
Interception.
As a swing role aircraft the Rafale has been designed to excel in both the air to ground and air to air arena. For air combat or interception the pilot has 3 sensors ‘ radar, OSF, SPECTRA- the data fusion system taking into account the more precise system for a given criterion when identifying or locating a target. The OSF will be the preferred system for angular resolution, radar for ranging at long distances (OSF laser range finder at shorter distances) and SPECTRA for passive identification of threats (by comparison with a database). ‘This data fusion capacity between the different sensors is certainly the most significative point of the Rafale weapon system, explains Philippe Rebourg, it is a revolution by comparison with planes the generation of M2000 or F16 whose pilots have to build an image of the tactical situation by analysing information provided by radar or threat warning system. With the Rafale the crews can obtain a clear view of the whole air battle with one look and take the advantage.’

Every data recorded by different sensors are fused then presented on central display. The OSF image can be displayed on the same screen or a loupe can be activated to verify that a single plot is not a raid of many aircrafts flying in close formation. While in the RWS (range while scan) mode the RBE2 can track 40 targets of which 8 by a reinforced tracking mode for missile designation. The M88-2 engines can accelerate from idle to maximum reheat thrust in less than 3 seconds permitting Rafale to accelerate quickly. The digital FBW gives a very good agility and the very inclined position of the ejection seat allows pilot to resist higher load factors.
Suddenly, as we exit a turn, the RBE2 acquires a contact at medium altitude, Philippe Rebourg initiate immediately an air intercept, accelerating. The target is automatically followed by the weapon system and the pilots validates the proposed option by pressing a button on the throttle. For evident reasons no radar or OSF performance will be disclosed here. We are outside MICA range and we must still close in but the OSF having locked the target at the beginning of the interception shows an image of a Transall despite a fine layer of clouds separating us from the target. The OSF TV way works in fact in the near visible infrared and her large field of view allows tracking of high boresight objectives. The pilot can choose between two firing domains : maximum range or no escape zone. Max range is materialized by a doted line and no escape by a steady line surrounding the target. In WVR combat a minimum shooting distance is materialized on the tactical display. As soon as we are in range the weapon system signals ‘shoot’ on the HUD, by cycling between the contacts the pilot can immediately engage the other targets, the second missile is automatically locked on the n+1 target. MICA can be fired every 2 seconds, the one from the airframe points are ejected up to 4G while wings pylons can release MICA up to 9G. The propulsed phase is very short (a few seconds) and the shooting is nearly undetectable, no smoke is produced by the rocket motor. For long range intercept, the missile follows an inertial trajectory toward coordinates continuously refreshed by the datalink then uses the seeker before hitting target. The time of flight of the missile is indicated on the HUD and +the datalink duration appears as a decreasing camembert plot.
————————————–
Precision attack.
The simulated LGB attack using GBU-12 against the Faraman beacon at the south end of the Rhône delta will highlight this demonstration. Philippe Rebourg begins by a run at medium height ; first action : he has to acquire an offset point to update the nav system. The nav system knowing precisely the coordinates, the bearing and distance of the target from this offset point will compute precisely the weapon release point. At 20,000 ft and 15 NM from Port Saint Louis where a jetty will serve as the offset point, the OSF is locked on and the laser rangefinder is briefly activated and determine the distance. After being positioned the pilot authorizes the attack by pressing a trigger on the sidestick and the computer release 3 of the 4 GBU-12 simulated. ‘With the GBU-12, the release domain is small. The pilot has to follow the crosshairs’.
For a second attack, in a toss, we fly 20 NM away before coming back to the beacon. At 18,000 ft Philippe Rebourg roll inverted and dive at 23°. With a command on the throttle, he places the designation diamond on the triangle marking the target position calculated by the system. He uses the zoom function of the OSF to aim more precisely, as soon as the order is given on the HUD he pulls up at 5.5G following the guiding crosshairs, the last GBU-12 is released. The manoeuvre brings us at 10,000 ft out of range of short range missiles and AAA.
———————————–
——————————
Aerobatics.
Thanks to her FBW the Rafale is extremely manoeuvrable. Depending on the configuration there are 2 flight domains : air-to-ground with heavy loads (5.5G max and 160°/s roll) or air combat (9G max and 280°/s roll rate) In emergency case the max load factor can reach 11G.
During test flights for opening the flight envelope at very low speed the aircraft flew at an incidence of more than 100° and at negative speeds of ’40 knots without loss of control.<
‘We consider that firing after a brutal nose-up like a Cobra are risked during combat because weapon separation problems can arise and pilot can be in a very dangerous situation if he fails to destroy his opponent(s). We prefer to use a very agile weapon, like the MICA and a helmet mounted sight’ says Jean Camus, test pilot and ex-manager of the EPNER 5french test pilot school) and former M2000 test pilot.
————————————–
Air to ground radar and combat.
We take the direction of Istres to acquire a low altitude radar map by using the DBS (Doppler beam sharpening) function of the RBE2. With this function, the pilot can approach an objective at low attitude, pop-up briefly to record the mapping then dive to cover and work on the memorised image.
The DBS will be superseded by a SAR mode giving an even more detailed image.
The controller signals a Mirage 2000N being about to cross our flight path from the left. By a single action on a button on the throttle, the pilot activates the combat mode and the 2000N is immediately locked by the RBE2 while working in the ground mapping mode. With the integration of an helmet mounted sighting unit on the F3 standard, this acquisition (although extremely rapid) will be even quicker for objectives situated outside the radar FOV and alleviating the need for agressive manoeuvres. The seeker of one of the Magics lock the target and Philippe Rebourg turns aggressively in order to fire. A few second later, all is finished and M2000 fate is decided.

The feminine voice of the vocal system signals the Bingo, sadly, it’s time to come home. First action : decrease speed. This is done by pulling back the throttle, braking and unlatch the autothrottle : this system adjust the lag of all aerodynamic surfaces and the thrust of the engines to follow a very precise slope.

In the last turn Philippe Rebourg takes control and take carefully contact with the runway. While he maintains a nose-up attitude, he lights the afterburner on and pull firmly on the stick : we go vertical !<
Short landing : at 120 knots the aerodynamic braking is not that efficient and Dassault test pilots advice to immediately put the main gear on the runway in order to brake quickly. The aircraft stops in less than 500m.
former BAe AirOps director Chris Yeo (Flight International 1999).
—————————————————————————————————————————–

Thunder Notes.

Some pretty intersting FACTS:

Insentive on use of passive sensors >>>
Navigation: 100 Fts at 450 KTs without the use of Radar maping terrain following modes or radio-altimeter: This is now a fully implemented F-2 standard feature, the aircraft can fly at max warload (i.e. carrying 1.5 its own weight in internal and external load, something no other fighters have achieved so far) at 450 Kts and a 100 Fts passively.
“This totally passive system allows flight at 300 feet, this altitude being only temporary, final objective is 100 feet.”

Air-to-Air engagements:
Detection and lock-on targets at more than 50 Kms demonstrated through a fine layer of cloud”. Note that OSF have seen some major improvements since 1999, date at which this article was writen and that there are further developements for a new generation OSF designed to be more weather-dependent, allowing for the detection and lock on target of stealth aircrafts at METEOR’s range.
MICA IR will be the main combat weapon of Rafale and all will posses a gun, the 30 mm DEFA 791B, but OSF will eventually allow for a totally passive detection and engagement of any targets at <> 120 Km range, using METEOR as a main BVR weapon. The SPECTRA suite is NOT a simple ECM (even new generation), in fact it acts like the Offensive and Defensive ECM suites of an E-6 Prowler, detects passively any radar emission at up to 200 km while giving its position with a precion of less than one* over an envelope of 360X360. This is part of the detection and targeting system fully integrated into Rafale’s weapon suite which sensor fusion and integration is similar to that of F-22. So its detection and targeting capabilities are provided not by one or two but a multiple number of sensors working from near-visible IR to UV and Laser/EMIs emissions as well as TV imaging in both Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground modes. All of which are linked to the pilot’s displays and most are designed to provide with a full spectrum coverage of IR/UV/Laser/EMIs).

“For evident reasons no radar or OSF performance will be disclosed here. We are outside MICA range and we must still close in but the OSF having locked the target at the beginning of the interception shows an image of a Transall despite a fine layer of clouds separating us from the target.”

Maneouvrability and arrangements main features:
From Rafale A to the actual model, there has been some major evolutive design changes:
Rafale A demonstrated a sustained speed of Mach 2 and controled minimum speed of 80 Kts (during M88 first flight, in particular, only the F-404 engine used its afterburner). Rafale C/D/Ms were designed to improve on these characteristics, Rafale C also supercruised during its first flight.
Most significant changes:
Repositioning of the main wing from shoulder mounted to mid-fuselage in order to improve transonic drag characterisitcs, adition of a small and steep LEX runing from the wing root to the air intake lips (Rafale A was a canted Delta design and did not have LEXs), increase in surface of the canard, nose slope increased by 6* to improve forward visibility at high AOA (a carrier operation rerquierement), used of more blinded wing-fuselage junction to improve transonic drag further with the benefits of a reduced RCS wich also gave it a far higfher fuel fraction than Typhoon in the process by increasing the internal volume significantly, serated skin on the main wing and control surfaces, canards, and diverse fuselage point to difuse radar emission and reduce RCS, this feature is similar to that in use on the F-117, anti-radiation treatment of heat difusers and use of anti-IR and ECM paints, materials experimented on Rafale C-01 (The black coloured one) now used on all serie Rafales. The fuselage between the engine exhaust is now quanted for reduction of RCS in the rear hemisphere, the M-88 features an IR reduction system with the main afterburner nozzle blown with cooler air and are recessed within a set of fixed nozzles, this feature reduces the IR signature well below what is possible with F-22 due to its TVC nozzles, the same can be said of F-35: IR signature of TVC systems are notoriously difficult to control and reduce. The difference of temperature betwwen M88-2 and EJ-200 exhaust nozzles is actually visible to the naked eye.
http://img166.exs.cx/img166/5421/j200glow3dq.jpg
Compare:
http://img170.exs.cx/img170/5793/m882irvis8cy.jpg

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/9215/RAFALEMC-01_01.jpg

RCS for Typhoon is about 50% higher than Rafale, its IR signature is ALSO quite higher.

“During test flights for opening the flight envelope at very low speed the aircraft flew at an incidence of more than 100° and at negative speeds of ’40 knots without loss of control.”

Rafale make use of difusion shockwaves to energise the boundary layers over (and under) the wing thanks to the careful positioning of its air-intake difusers, they allow for an energised airflow in the most important areas at high angle of attack and so that the aircraft stays fully controlable passed a 100* AOA without the use of TVC nozzles. This features also provide the rudder with a continuously renewed energic airflow, giving it spin-free characteristics. During the last Paris Air Show, its test pilot stated that a serie Rafale would pass an aileron roll at a 100 Kts in every configuration, meaning at max TOW if necessary. At this speed and weight, most of its concurents are already landed or loosing control authority, particularly the one without TVC nozzles.

“We consider that firing after a brutal nose-up like a Cobra are risked during combat because weapon separation problems can arise and pilot can be in a very dangerous situation if he fails to destroy his opponent(s).”

Most air combat analysts would agree with this, the cobra manoeuver leaves the aircraft with a depleted speed, with little energy to spare and in a very small airspace, offering the best firing solution to any adversary, it is far more desirable to have the ability to change direction quicly at whatever speed and a over the shoulder shooting capability. Rafale have both by the bucket, thanks to its optimised aerodynamics and the developement of eye-cueing systems or HMDS, it also have the capability to fly in one direction while pointing its nose in another, all of this at full throtle if necessary. For example, it can increase its AOA while following the same trajectory (following its velocity vector at different AOA): useful to put the gun piper on the target while keeping on its vector line…
http://img63.exs.cx/img63/7735/RAFALEA_01.jpg
Rafale A

http://img72.exs.cx/img72/3915/rafaleM02.jpg
Rafale M

http://img213.exs.cx/img213/7651/rafalendatasnetmarine6cq.png
From netmarine.net
The most accurate figures i have came across so far. Reason, these guys are nearly all Marine Nationale. Conclusion, at <> 600 kg less than the M, the Rafale C weights on at just above 9000kg. Typhoon is 11150 kg since it had to have its airframe beefed up for dual role. Aerodynamics:Advantage Rafale. TWR; Advantage Rafale, Wing load, Advantage Rafale. Fuel fraction; Advantage Rafale. Max payload; Advantage Rafale, RCS Advantage Rafale, IR signature; Advantage Rafale, should i add more? So if you desagree you’re more tha nwelcome to elaborate further.

http://img74.exs.cx/img74/3441/Intake-Left-arrangement.jpg
Above: The point where Dassault designers made use of the compressive and expansion Shockvawe phenomenon to provide the airframe with an amount of energised airflow Typhoon can only dream of, not to mention the close coupled canards situated where they sould be. B and E are expansion shockvawes accelerating the airflow. Point C, the LEX root, provides the aircraft with a much higher Mach ligne than Typhoon, which wing is straight at a sweep angle of <> 53* and doesn’t posses LEXs. These determine the speed at which the compression phenonenon are going to occur, the sweeper at the wing at the wing fuselage junction, the higher in mach speed the compressibility effect will be felt: At <> 70* this is advantage to Rafale too, with the added bonus of reatining a 48* main wing sweep for greated manoeuvrability at higher AOA and lower speed. Therefore, Rafale have a far better transonic characteristic by design, its more blended wing/fuselage junction goes also in this sense. In a few words, Rafale aerodynamics are a full generation ahead of that of Typhoon.
http://img16.exs.cx/img16/8309/Board.jpg
Payload, Rafale can carry 1.5 its own weight. Enuff said.

” We prefer to use a very agile weapon, like the MICA and a helmet mounted sight’ says Jean Camus, test pilot and ex-manager of the EPNER french test pilot school) and former M2000 test pilot.”

As for the argument MICAvsAMRAAM<, it is now irrelevenat since both are going to use METEOR for BVR. Sorr yfolks, i got to bug out. Over and out. Enjoy.

http://img151.exs.cx/img151/8180/thales0044qd.jpg

If you guys wants more elaboreate work on both aircrafts, i can give you some, but from where i’m standing, Typhoon is quiet underdeveloped from the design stage. Too bad it cannot be re-designed now.

I would think this is going to be hard to stop.

😮 Better force the attack to abort before launch.
Range 300 km. Speed M 3.5.

The AdA F1 CRs are not aparently equiped with this system…

:confused: but, radar à antenne latérale Raphael, Raphael lateral array radar. No telling if it’s a pod which i would think it is.

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/air

DAMOCLES
High performance, day/night, 3-5 µm multi-function targeting pod

Multi-function
Compatible with existing & future weapons systems
High performance/long stand-off range
Eye-safe laser range-finding system
Operational in all weather conditions/all theatres
Modular design for future upgrade incorporation
Selected by French Air Force
Main features

Advanced technology incorporating a state-of-the-art starring array detector, robust new generation tracking systems, superior image processing, 3D location, laser spot detection.
Powerful laser and high resolution imagery provide the aircraft with a long stand-off range and tactical ground/air defence system survivability.
Missions & Functions

Compatible with:
laser guided weapons Paveway II, Paveway III, HAKIM family
INS/GPS (AASM) guided missiles
Imagery-guided weapons

Attacks in autonomous or cooperative mode, using an integrated laser spot tracker
Damage assessment capability at long range
Automatic target recognition capability
Integrated navigation FLIR
Reconnaissance

Medium range day-night opportunistic target reconnaissance
Air-Air

Day-night visual airborne target identification
Characteristics

Imagery:

3rd generation detector
Spectral band: 3-5 microns
Field of view:
very wide FOV 24° x 18°
(navigation field)
wide FOV 4° x 3°
narrow FOV 1° x 0.75°
electronic magnification x2
Laser range-finding:

Wavelength 1.5 microns (eye-safe)
Laser specifications:

Wavelength: 1.06 microns
STANAG 3733
Laser spot tracker:

Wavelength: 1.06 microns
Weight:

265kg
Length:

2.50m

I think Damocles is not a SLAR pod but an advanced targeting IR designation pod.

MICA has far better aerodynamics than AMRAAM.

😎
The equation is simple: If a missile have to travel in a straight ligne, then maximum range is the most important factor: In reality this nearly never occurs: If MICA have to intercept a target 15000 ft higher as is was designed to, it will do so without loosing a much speed/energy/turning abilities and “no escape zone” volume as any AMRAAM in service would do. Missiles are like aircrafts, manoeuvring means energy and in every case, MICA aerodynamics win the day. Af for Mirage 2000, it is well known that it maches F-16 at lower altitudes to better it significantly at higher altitudes: with a top speed of M 2.2. Particularly because its empty weight didn’t increase, and it retains the low wing-loading it had at the bigining of its career. Initial accelaration of F-16 might be marginaly better low down, but it is not enough to accelerate in a straight ligne, any 1 vs 1 combat would end up with the victory of Mirage 2000-5/9 in 90% of the engagements. (Dixit Dassault own test pilots). F-16 won the ACF contest versus F-17 for the very same reasons, better transcient performances across the board and a more ballanced set of performances across its flight envelope. Someting else on MICA, it is now entering service in both EM and IR vesrions with the Rafale F2 of the Armee de l’Air.
About the pics, the bird on the left of the Mirage 2000-5F is a Norvegian F-16 pilot. Next to the MICA IR is our National Heroine Caroline Aigle (Capitaine) who is now flying a Mirage 2000-5F at B-A 102 Dijon.
A mock-fight betwen the two should be more than interesting.

I think it is aslo and mainly;

A questionof technology. This is the European effort to keep up with the US/British effort. The only thing is, they have to start with the UCAVs and then develop a manned version with the same technology. In fact, keeping the basis of what was FOAS for Britain alive as a programme as well as a tecxhnology developement path. The UCAV is that leadingg to a manned platform and will support all the sub-systems to be developed other than flight and navigation systems specific to manned aircrafts. (Attack/Nav-Comm/ECM-Offensive Jaming/Defencive ECM and Defensive suites etc).

2Dinger

I think they are planning quiet a high degree of automation. The fact that some remarkable advances in this field have been made by SAAB on their own programme is a clue: The Rafale monoplace would not have to fly them for the least demanding missions if at all, the D could fly a flock of them for a strike for SEAD missions and remote targeting in both air-to-air and air-to-ground. The use of amunition like MICA IR and AASM by the UCAVs is not unthikable. My wish list would include a retractable refueling probe and automatic refueling capabilities.
Presonally, at the way the picture of the actual Neuron design is shown, i would anticipate a mono-engine possibly equiped with a non-afterburner version of M-88, downrated to about 4.000 kg dry thrust. The drone airframe itself sould not weight more than 2750 kg to 3500 kg maximun with a playload of 2500 to 1500 kg including it own equipment and fuel:
Its own version of SPECTRA , OSF, plus Offensive ECM integrated system.
Capable of delivering its own PGMs but also to fire missiles in both air-to-air and air-to-ground. This mean that Rafales will be able to get firing solutions from targets datas given to them by these “Scouts”. They would not necessarly be able to detect their own targets first, like ground targets hiden from their direrct “sensors lignes” and distant stealth aircrafts, but with the fusion of remote targeting and its own sensors like OSF and SPECTRA, the detection of low observables are not out of the quiestion. Net they got to produce a good Aerodynamic and stealthy platform.

Another asset for linking with Drones and UCAVs.
By Laurent Marot
KOUROU, French Guiana (Reuters) – A European Ariane rocket launched a military surveillance satellite on Saturday, the third in a French-led drive for a European “spy in the sky” independent of the United States.

The Ariane-5 rocket blasted off at 1:26 p.m. from the European Space Agency (ESA) launch site in French Guiana on the northeast coast of South America. Aboard the rocket was the 4.2-tonHelios 2A satellite, the first of a new generation of spy satellites.

Earlier generation Helios 1 satellites were launched aboard Ariane rockets in 1995 and 1999.

“This satellite is more precise (than Helios 1),” Lieutenant Colonel Inaky Garcia Brotons of the French Air Force told Reuters before the launch.

“The infrared system permits detection of human activity. It can tell whether a truck convoy is moving or halted. Whether a nuclear reactor is operational or not,” he said.

The total program cost including a second satellite to be launched in three years is 2 billion euros ($2.6 billion), the French Defense Ministry said.

“There are those who read about it in magazines, and those who do it for real. Which are you? “
Both exept i haven’t flew for some time.
Pictures are the “Petit Duc” technology demonstrator, SNECMA M88-2, and Helios 2A.

😎 NATO is mainly US dominated.

It is not surprising that the standard for MIDS was established by a US companie or requierements: they have the most numerous assets within NATO and dominaste pretty much all decisions as to what the next standard should be. I know the hardware was not US made as Dassault was talking about the challenge of developing it two years ago. Who exactly developed it from Dassault/Thales/EADS is something else but i am sure of one thing, It is not an off the shelf programme from a US manufacturer, the specs migh be. This wouls have been made clear and vocal by Thales and Dassault first as they are pretty much defensive abvout the amount of “Natioanl” equipment going in their main programmes. Some electronic componnent for the UCAV will be bought from the U.S.A.

“M. Charles Edelstenne a répondu que, pour des raisons de politique nationale, aucun équipement ne dépendait d’une industrie étrangère. En revanche, nombre de composants informatiques sont achetés aux Etats-Unis. La question n’est pas celle des savoir-faire, mais celle des coûts. Le problème se pose pour l’ensemble des équipements qui incorporent des outils informatiques.”

French assemblee Nationale site.

http://recherche.assemblee-nationale.fr/visualiser.asp?k2dockey=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eassemblee%2Dnationale%2Efr%2F12%2Fcr%2Dcdef%2F03%2D04%2Fc0304027%2Easp%40site&serverSpec=localhost:9920&querytext=eurofighter&OrigQuery=&QueryParser=Simple&logTitle=&dtype=2&collection=site&allsite=oui&intervention=&aut=&ResultStart=1&ResultDocStart=1

Armed Forces – Further successs in US marketUlm/Germany, 29 March 2004
US-based ViaSat, Inc. has awarded a €20 million contract to EADS Defence Electronics (DE) for supplying core electronics enhancing the US armed forces’ network-enabled capabilities. As reported by EADS on Monday, the contract covers the delivery of 400 power amplifiers, i.e. the core component of the US Multifunctional Information Distribution System (MIDS).

MIDS equipment is being integrated in many US fighter jets, vehicles and naval ships and provides the capabilities for setting up a data communications network and thus allows networked operations to be carried out. MIDS enables the establishment of a comprehensive situation picture in near real time and improves the cooperation of multinational forces. EADS Defence Electronics was chosen as supplier in the face of strong competition from the US based on the precision and reliability of equipment previously supplied.

“The build-up of the MIDS data link system within NATO”, says Johann Heitzmann, President and CEO of EADS Defence Electronics, “is a key prerequisite of netcentric operations. With its longstanding experience in high frequency technology, EADS Defence Electronics will play a leading role in this aspect of transformation.”

http://www.eads.net/xml/content/OF00000000400004/5/72/30824725.html

Not exactly clear cut this… :confused:

2 Aurel :confused:

Sorry mate! MIDS is Dassault answer to Link 16 and if anytrhing, EADS had little to do with its developmement, Thales might have. This is an 100% French venture and thinking of it, why would Dassault try to get any form of dependency on the US industry while developing a concurent product for them? Be serious. MIDS and Link 16 are two different systems, Link 16 was criticised for low banwith output and MIDS is designed to adress this.

As for EADS, have a look at their site and try to find ANYTHING remotly linked to a US company in a position to influence them. They wouldn’t let this happen as they are also concurent of the US industry.

http://www.eads.com/frame/lang/en/1024/xml/content/OF00000000400004/6/03/31000036.html

10 July 2000: “Day One” for EADSA new era in aerospace mergers begins with the official start of operations for Europe’s largest aerospace company. EADS is offering 30% of its shares on the Frankfurt, Madrid and Paris stock exchanges. The Lagardère Group together with the French state holds a 30% share, DaimlerChrysler also holds 30% and the Spanish SEPI a 5.5% share. Existing Aerospatiale Matra shares will be exchanged for EADS shares at a 1:1 ratio.

Let’s go back to the topic subject shall we? Anyone with some infos on Neuron? I think Dassault design and engineering experience with SAAB capabilities on robotisation and automation will pay off.

About MIDS.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/defense/gb/publications/img/FoxThree2.pdf

At the opening of the Eurosatory exhibition which takes place from June 14 to 18, Michele Alliot-Marie, the French Minister of Defence announced the launching of a European reconnaissance air system called “Euromale”. On this occasion, Dassault Aviation signed an historical agreement with EADS :

for UCAV, Dassault Aviation is prime contractor for the entire program

for Euromale, Dassault Aviation is prime contractor for the flight segment

This decision follows the one announced at the last Paris Air Show : the launching of the technological demonstrator of the unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV), henceforth called « Neuron », which associates France, Sweden and Greece with Dassault Aviation as prime contractor and EADS as a partner. Other European negotiations are under study or in the course of finalization.

Dassault Aviation also presents at Eurosatory a Maritime Surveillance UAV in collaboration with Thales and Elbit.
Furthermore Dassault Aviation is also committed in the development of an all-mission tactical drone with payload variety « SlowFast » in partnership with Sagem within the framework of the two corporations’ common company DSTU.

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/8310/drones2002mo.jpg

Pictures (top to bottom) : Maritime Surveillance UAV ; NEURON, SlowFast.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/gb/media/webtv/

video here…