Well this is all certainly one of the most interesting projects I have seen in a long time, thanks for bringing it up, I did a piece a little while ago on the SAN (do a search and you’ll find it), as this is one of my favourite navies.

Impi: mate you raise very interesting arguments in conversation and I find it hard to disagree with a lot of what you have siad, but I do know one thing for sure, the SAN is looking at replacing Drakensburg with one of these LHD’s, simply because having a fleet replenishing ship with a mainly coastal force has proven to be a big waste of time and money, thus when she has left port most of the time over the last 10-15 years, it has been in an Amphibious Support role or Patrol Vessel and not a Replishment role as she was originally designed. Now this argument could be countered withthe aquisition of the Amatola class but that becomes void if you look at the age and capabilites of the Drak.

As for having the money to buy such ships, well if you go back to what you originally said:

The SAN wants to buy at least two (maybe even three) LHDs in the 20 000t range. One of these is to be operated to some extent on behalf of other African countries, most notably those in SADC.

Then the cost issue also becomes void, as the other signatory countries will also be putting money towards the project- right? That said, does that also mean that the other countries would also get a say in which design is chosen (thoughts of the F-35 come to play here). If this is the case then a department would have to be set up with all members studying the designs.

Now the idea of tacking an order on to the end of our purchase is interesting. We have had joint ops with the SAN and even had joint missions with them, they have proven to be a very capable force over the years and the new ships coming on line now are only going to add to that capability and professionalism. As for training for these vessels, perhaps a deal could be struck along similar lines to what the SAN has with the training of their Sub personel (they are being trained in India with the IN who have similar vessels). Thus they could be trained in a country that also has similar vessels, though one flaw to this is the purchase of the MHD-150 design. I seriously doubt that the BPE design would be chosen simply because they are bigger than what is being sought (27000TD as opposed to 20000TD), I wonder if the Dutch would throw in their offer, their design was interesting and has a load of potential.

Ohhh and Impi- mate they are not Canberra Class LHDs we are getting, they are Adelaide Class, I realise the confusion these will cause with the Adelaide class FFG’s but IMHO due to the first two FFG’s being retired and the rest gaining a major warfighting upgrade- I am now calling these the Sydney class after the first of the vessels to get the upgrade.

This MHD-150 design is interesting though, Five helo spots ion the upper deck with a sixth on the aft platform lower down- odd combinatiobn in anyones mind but if it works, well role with it- it just reminds me of the prewar carrier designs that had multiple decks for aviation, though the lower ones were used for flying off but the helo these days is a different machin altogether as we all know.

For more info in this design click here

Gol: mate you are right in saying that it does raise more questions than it answers, but IIRC the answers you seek lay in what the Kuznetsov has deployed on her- after all, she is a modified version of the Orel class suited for more modern weapons and aircraft (Don’t forget, the Orel’s were supposed to have the naval version of the Mig-23’s aboard).

I think this is starting to get off topic and rather than upset the natural order of things, I sugest that we start a thread on the 57mm Vickers gun and other such naval artillery. Agreed?

Pete: mate I’ve just done some reading on the BAE Systems 57mm 70 SAK Mk 3 using the 3P rounds that you mention and the stated facts claim a 220rpm with a range out to 17km but with use of the HCER rounds that could be extended further.

The system has been selected for use on the new USCG Cutters, USN’s LCS and the Visby class ships, though mention is made to retrofitting the system to RN ships.

SLL: Sorry mate, but the point is still vaild. And thanks also for the “Vote of Confidence”.

Radar: Mate the 57mm is not so good at short distances especially with proximity fuse based rounds. These rounds need a certain distance to arm which is usually 500m. I agree that a 57mm gun is better refered to as a secondary gun rather than a CIWS and yes it is also dependant on the position of the gun.

Pete: Mate I have, I have been trying to find pics of them fitted but do you think I can. I remember seeing one fitted back in the early days of HMAS Anzac, just before I joined up. I know they are fitted for but not with and I also remember seeing them fitted when the Arunta did her first Gulf Patrol.

The RAN did also do the sea-swap during the East Timor crisis with HMAS Jervis Bay

What we did was sent a crew with some equpiment over to ET and and back and on the next trip over there they were swaped with the next crew who had flown over on an RAAF C-130, this was done a few times (three IIRC).

MConrads: Mate any chance of you providing us with one of your spectacular drawings of an Anzac with the CEAFAR and CEAMount systems and the Mk-8 Quad pack Harpoons, don’t forget the Nulka decoy system and Seahawk aft. Thanks in advance mate.

Secondly for everyone: That pic I provided of the Sea Zenith system, has anyone else noted the Missile kills on the side of it? Is anyone able to shed any light on this and why there are two types of kill markings, I mean with a CIWS it’s either a kill or the ship is sunk right? No assists in this threat zone is there.