Ja WorsleyMate there are a heap of them, I think the one that comes clear to mind is in Spain (Iberia I think they are called) White with a Yellow tail. I saw it in an Airliners World mage that I occasionally buy- I give them to my friends 10 Boy because he’s interested in being an airline pilot, not me- to me Airliners are just big fat targets 😉
Do a search on Airliners.net and I am sure you’ll come up with a heap of them!
Ja WorsleyOh I forgot.. You think China is going to “gift” all the fighters, bombers, and other equipment you wrote down.
I never said they’d GIFT it all, only the old equipment that China really isn’t going to need in the near future, those being the H-5 Bombers, the rest Bolivia would pay for some how (either tapping into natural resources or making a basing deal allowing Chinese access into America’s back yard).
On the other hand I’d counter your An-70 dreams with dreams of the An-71 AWACS getting back into production and being sold off, There was nothing wrong with this system and it was a far more beautiful plane than the huge ugly A-50 Mainstay, more ecconomical as well!
Ja WorsleyYou’re not playing with a full deck are you Nelson? Do you really think you could get all that you said with the small budget assigned?
Ja WorsleyAre there any pics of these taking off or in flight? I have seen them mentioned so many times but I have never seen one off the ground.
Ja WorsleyWell I think that each country might have a different name for it, Look at our F-111’s we called them Bush Pigs and the Americans called them Ardvark, funny how they only called them that as they retired them, yet we still fly them and no one knows what Pig is when refered to as such!
Personally I think they should all be painted Red and called Herrings!
Ja WorsleyI had just never heard great reviews of the C-212
That’s interesting because I’ve heard just the opposite especially from the crews that fly them down to Antartica.
personally, I would have liked to see refurbished DHC-5
The good old Tuttunka (sorry got to stop watching that silly Kevin Costner movie) Buffalo is basically a lager version of the Bou but from what I remember isn’t too good on the old unprepaired landing strips, she’s a bit too heavy for them. Basically the only replacement for the Bou is going to be another Bou, for what we do with them, nothing else compares to it and nothing is out there or planned.
Ja WorsleyWell done everyone, this really is sparking up to be one of the better debates I have had in a long time, here are my thoughts, please indulge me here:
Indian equipment is out, their ties with Brazil would preclude any sales even for the Tejas. Thus you would be left with two options, CHINA and RUSSIA. Both countries are happy to supply equipment with little reguard to local politics.
China would make a play for the oil, there recent failings in the US market have forced them to look elsewhere and Bolivia would make a great asset in the back pocket.
What would China offer?
Fighters: FC-1’s would be the best bet here, a small multi-roled plane that is cheap to operate and cheap to buy, forget the J-10’s and J-11’s they are right out. As was mentioned above, keeping it simple (the KISS principle) really must be taken into account here simply because of what is in service now.
Keep the T-33’s in service for a little while longer simply because these could be used as LIFT’s and FAC’s not to mention trainers, don’t forget these are actually very technologically advanced having gained a glass cockpit in their recent upgrade. Should it be termed nessecary, then offset these with K-8’s.
Bombers: Considering that China still has over 350 H-5’s in service, I don’t really see a problem with them transfering a few of these to the FAB. These would be a gift of course and any training needed on these machines would be paid for in a symbolic gesture.
Transports: As mentioned above, the transport fleet would have to meet a very strict requirement considering the topology of the land, and I think the Chinese would offer a good source of aircraft in this area considering they have a similar topology there. So what would the FAB look forward to from the Chinese? A fleet of Y-8’s (local built An-12’s) as their main transporter and these would be suplimented by a networked fleet of Harbin Y-12’s.
Other Aircraft: I agree that AWACS is a primary concern for any Air Force these days but could the FAB own and operate them? If they did opt to get this capability then the only real answer the Chinese could offer is the AWACS version of the Y-8. The PLAN has recently been seen with these AEW varients and they would be the only real plane that China could offer for this role (Their A-50’s aren’t in the running here since they don’t produce most of the systems needed). Tankers might be a good idea too but not really a nessecity.
Helos: With over 300 Z-5’s still in service some of these could easily be gifted to the Bolivians, but would they want them?Personally I think the Z-9’s might be the better option here and a decent sized fleet could be budgeted for along side a small number of the bigger Chinese built Mi-17’s.
Naturally the weapons available would be supplied and all training would be done in China initially then passed back home.
Considering the ecconomic state Russia is in, having a new customer with such a big shopping list like the Bolivians have would certainly make them jump for joy. As mentioned above also, with the Peruvians operating some Russian equipment as well as Venezuela, support for a Russian fleet isn’t really a problem, and from what I have just been reading, the Peruvians are really happy with their equipment and would not consider anything else now.
What would Russia offer?
Fighters: Considering Russia has a major problem at the moment with too many planes not enough money to keep them all, it’s would be easy to see them offering the FAB some Mig-29’s just to clear up the airfields (and the head aches they have with trying to find the money to keep their own fleet active). Same thing applies to the Su-25’s and maybe even the Mig-27’s (basically anything the FAB wants, they could have, as long as they paid for them). I won’t bother with Bombers for the FAB from Russia as the Su-25’s and the Mig-27’s make a more logical solution here.
Transports: Again this is simple, An-12 supported by a smaller fleet of light transports, say An-26’s or possibly An-2’s
Helo’s: No doubt’s here, Mi-171’s and lots of them, maybe even a few Mi-35’s but definately the Mi-171’s
Well that’s my play, pick it to bits if you wish but that is what I see the most logical and practicle solution to be. I wonder if anyone from Bolivia is reading this 😉
Ja WorsleyInteresting thoughts there Ed
Ja WorsleyGreat work mate, with friends like him you keep the rest of us happy and we will in turn make you happy 😉
Ja WorsleyWell it seems to be the way these days, Corvette sized vessels undertaking patrol duties.
I like the looks of this ship but is it practicle? I know they will base a couple in the Canaries and a couple will run around the base of the country around Gibralta protecting the enterance to the Med from their side.
I actually see a market for these vessels, who knows, Chile might buy them and so might Argentina.
Ja WorsleyHmmm according to my reference material Uraguay has only one that is Fited for but now with the Exocet Missiles, it was the lead ship of the Class and was transfered to the MdU back in 89 and it was thought back then that another two would be bought. I can see the logic in having these ships, perhaps one would become serviceable and the other used for spares, thus having two ships of the smae class on front line service.
As for the rest of the Portugese equipment on offer:
Puma’s, I can see going to IAR who would then upgrade them and offer them to Eastern European forces for commonality with the NATO force, perhaps even the Baltic states might be interested in them.
Alouette’s: Most definately a civilian sale here, these have used up their military life and are old now, the only practicle use they could be is of warbird collections or spares to countries that have these units in service.
F-16’s, this is the tricky part, getting US aproval for sale to a country that the US is favourable of, Indonesia could use them but I doubt highly that they would make a bid for them since they are more interested in Su’s and are looking at retiring their Falcons as it is.Pakistan might make a play for them but considering that the US are back in favour with Karachi, they’d probably be more interested in New Falcons rather than old ones. So that leaves me with one final thought, and that is of the Baltic states. It has recently been announced that they are interested in forming air forces of their own, particularly since they are NATO members. A handfull of F-16’s even if they are old, would be a great starter point for them and their intergration into the service.
Ja WorsleyI bow before them, I’m not worthy, I’m not worthy.
OK Hands up who still does play with Lego? (Yes my hand is up). I love the Starware pilots, nice touch. I find it interesting that they actually replicated the interior so well too, look at the speakers in there. This guys must be USN. I wonder if they will take it on tour and if it will come down here.
Ja WorsleyAccording to my data files the C-212 does offer a 15% increase over the DHC-4 in terms of cargo carrige. The 24 troops are only those along the walls, they can actually take up to 40 with an insertion installed in the middle that is removable. I have seen these in real life.
Ja WorsleyHmm, not sure whether they need Super Tucanos with their newly upgraded T-33As available..
Well the T-33’s are only going to be flying untill 2010 from what I have been reading, The EMB-314’s have the advantage of being a local production and also cheap, so I can see where this is going.
Ja WorsleyMy ideal solution to the Transportation requirments of the RAAF would be as such:
6x C-17’s (four really isn’t enough for us considering we are are the end of the world here.
12x C-130J-30’s
6x C-130J’s
18x C-212/400, These offer a marginal increase in capability over the current caribou’s and are not as dramatic as the jumps ahead the C-27J and the C-295’s are offering. Besides, the rough field capabilities of this palne are well known, though not as good as the DHC-4, they are still Impressive.
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