Ed:
Ja: I actually meant the RAF, not the RAAF regarding the Orions – I was specifically referring to the P-7, which was to replace RAF Nimrods, US P-3s and German and Italian Atlantiques. The Nimrod is a great aircraft, but to be honest, it is not in wide enough service to allow quantity to combat cost. I would be happy to see Nimrod MRA-4s in larger numbers, acting as both bombers and maritime patrol planes, but you need quantity as well as quality!
Ok I fully understand and support that action, yes the RAF did have a winner on that deal but Lockheed bottomed out on the deal and the American defence department was nuts to let it go, with so many P-3 airframes sitting down at AMARAC it was sure to have been a winner, and many of those frames are low enough to actually be considered new (where do you think the RAAF sources it’s spares from- but I didn’t say that 😉 )
As for the Pigs, I agree, they are getting long in the tooth, but there are enough lower-timed airframes to allow upgraded (zero-timed) versions to serve another 20 years. As for the Fullback, I disagree – integrating Russian kit would be very troublesome, in fact it would probably make the SeaSprog deal look like a walk in the park!
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point mate, the only major difference with this plane over any of the other RAAF service fleet is the sizingof the nuts and bolts (they use metric- we currently have a fleet of planes with Imperial measurements bar a few in small numbers). If you are refering to the weapons systems and radars then that to has been thought of- IAI have offered a deal with the Russians to intergrate Western systems on the planes it produces, thus the Fullback in RAAF service would go through Israel on it’s way here.
The point about the Cobras was because, if memory serves, around 40 were offered for pennies on the dollar in the mid-90s. They could have been upgraded, and been in service now
You are either very well informed, have a very good search system or are around my age if not a little older. Yes we were indeed offered up to 40 AH-1’s back in the early 90’s. These were old F models that, for a small price, could have been upgraded to the same standard as those then coming on line with the ANG and Army Reserve sqdns. Back then we had a government that didn’t want to buy anything secondhand no matter how good it might have been or what capabilities it offered (IIRC that deal was in 92/93, I remember hearing about it when I was getting divorced). The other main reason we said no to them back then as we did in the Air 87 comp was because with the new ARH we wanted a wheeled helo which ment quick deck movement on Naval vessels. I tried telling certain people on another site that the Viper (AH-1Z) would not be bought because of the skids, I was laughed at, called an idiot and more, oh well you get that!
Fedaykin:
Certainly not ideal then, I have never heard of CSC here in the UK so I can’t comment on there work but isn’t there firms down there with more experiance in defence contracting?
Yes there is but no one wanted the contracts, that fact alone should have signaled the government that they were in trouble! the government first approached BAe Australia but they refused and then they went to Boeing Australia and they were told that Boeing would rather concerntrait it’s energies on the F-111 program (which itself was a mess- 9 working planes out of a fleet of 35, they did well to get 27 back in the air in such a short time). Hawker Pacific was also spoken to about the program but they declined even to look at the code programes. It was after ALL avenues of military contracting had been exhausted that the government opend the contract up for tender. CSC was the only one to respond, IBM turned its back and even Microsoft laughed at the government (right there is the biggest joke).
I had the chance to walk around one of your ANZACS last year at Trafalger 200, a lovely piece of kit in all respects. I went onto three different Meko based vessels that day (Australian, Greek and Turkish)
I hope you enjoyed ANZAC mate, she is a nice ship and has loads of room for the small crew on her (small- 150 compaired to those on the FFG’s- 210 and DDG’s-330 of which I had served on when I was in the Navy).
The highlight of the day for me was my walk around the INS Dehli but thats for another thread.
Would love to hear about it, those are big ships, made Brisbane look small when I saw her sail past us in the Indian ocean back in 97.
When I get to 5000+ posts I hope I garner as much respect as you do in these matters.
I’m not sure respect is the right word to use there mate, many on this forum would really love to disagree with you on that mater. My knowledge simply comes from having actually been there and serving in the fleet, if I can pass on any knowledge I am happy to do so (as long as it doesn’t get anyone in trouble and that includes me).
Hopefully my name and Avatar are at least becoming recognised at the 200+ post mark.
Mate who could not know the guy that has susspicious Bender as his hallmark 😉
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