crobatoGreat video. Massive load of information. You can see the FC-1 prototypes having their radar; JH-7 prototype firing some sort of AAM; SAR images; what looks like a new generation HMS; an MPA based on the Y-7; the J-11B in the latter end, so in a way, this is the J-11B going official now. And for a short moment there, the canopy of the J-10, still a bit too shy showing the whole thing in the official video.
crobatothat’s like J-10’s cockpit when it first came out. It should look better than the one on FC-1 right now.
That depends but I gather that the J-11B cockpit design was already frozen before the cockpit of the FC-1.
crobatoRight. You said exactly the opposite ages ago, but never mind.
Very amusing. If an item is sold to China, its default that China got access to it and China gets it. If an item is not available despite public reports of Chinese interest and the like, it was never around/ china was just phishing etc.
Not entirely and no. You’re really that naive, and you have not seen how Western sellers like Airbus and Boeing would serialized and “seal” critical parts of the aircraft so they won’t be tampered with.
The companies can offer anything. They run up into a brick wall thereafter. Ask someone from Phaza about their reaction to the Pero issue.
Like I said you cant hold a civilized conversation when it comes to anything that goes against your own preconceived notions of Chinese pride. Pretty pathetic really. All the name calling wont change that.
I would rather take the words of any Russian developer with years in the field, over yours. After all, wasnt it on this very forum that you tried to even correct PiBu?
But then again, Pibu does work with Janes which reported this Irbis thing. So go correct him and Janes.
I just think you’re freaking naive. And yes money speak wonders, and you underestimate its power, GROW UP.
crobatoIt sure as hell looks like one
Interesting. The servos in the radar are not the same shown for the KLJ-1, KLJ-3 and in the posters of the KLJ-6 and KLJ-7.
The cockpit looks similar to the J-10s, with 3 green MFDs and the same HUD. Arrangment of the analog dials are not the same though, and you have two additional color MFDs on the bottom. So its clearly not the J-10s and not as nice as the FC-1’s. Nor is it like any Russian cockpit I have ever seen and certainly not with that HUD there.
There is clearly some fly by wire system, the “Fei Bao”, and a straight copy of the OEPS. I’m curious about the RWR which is not featured here.
crobatoThe J-10 is currently AL-31FN powered. Russia is said to be marketing the AL-31FM1 to China for the J-10, but China has yet to receive the engine or apparently sign an order, so they do not in fact have Salyut’s best engine as of yet.
That may not be true. Before China would sign a large order, they would need a batch of the engines they would need to create J-10 prototypes which, and which China would also be able to evaluate the engines first hand.
Once the plane is developed, and the engines passing satisfaction for the Chinese, then they may sign a large order.
I have no doubt they have received some evaluation samples, just as China also recieved some evaluation samples of radars from Phazotron, even though they never finalized their deals with Phazotron.
Salyut is also offering the FM1 as an upgrade for the existing AL-31F engines for the Flankers. The upgrade takes place when the engines are overhauled. Again, China would have to evaluate them first hand before signing a much larger order.
This is just the way how business works.
crobatoWhat makes you think that China would be willing to pay the immense costs of restarting production for either the Tu-160 or Tu-22M3?
There is nothing sensitive about the technology of the Tu-160, and Russia probably wouldn’t even be deterred by international criticism for weapons proliferation.
In reality, the Tu-160 was never fully developed as a modern, multi-role conventional bomber. Most of the avionics and systems are long out of production and obsolete. The operating costs of the Tu-160 are also staggering. You really have to wonder if Russia’s own Tu-160 bomber force is an effective combat element or a partially derelict status symbol?
If China was willing to invest the equivilent of tens of billions of dollars/euros into a manned bomber, it might be more desirable to start with a clean sheet of paper than with the Tu-160.
And I already told you China isn’t buying, so you’re just wasting your posts. Its just that the Russians were offering the Tu-22M3 which they also brought into their exercises to show to the Chinese. No way the Chinese are going for the headache of maintaining a variable wing plane this day and age, though I bet they are interested to see the rotaring launcher for the Kh-55 in the Tu-160.
The whole exercise is nothing but a marketing farce, only to show this and that to Chinese officials to attempt to sell. Every piece of equipment they brought in for that exercise, had that purpose in mind.
After they signed a contract, they should have warned the Chinese before hand, they could not restart the IL-76 production line.
crobatoThere were several comments on China asking/ interested in the Bars and even you were reporting them on this very forum. The International Air Power article by Andrew Johnson on the Su-30 MKI/MKK also mentions the possibility of Bars going to the MKK.
The reports turned out to be false unless China, as always, are phishing for information.
The MSE was offered and cleared for export., it was not regarded as earth shattering since the Chinese themselves appeared to getting a firm basis in planAR array radars The MSF was never cleared, despite all the public blah blah and talk of exports, ask anyone in Phazotron if you have doubts.
That was cleared both by Janes and KANWA, the latter has good connections with the Russians. Certainly the phase array wasn’t an issue, since Phazotron did offer the Kopyo-F for the FC-1, not to satisfy the PAF requirement for it, but the PLAAF side of the bargain.
I knew it would upset you, but its a fact of life.
And it would upset you, but it is a real fact of life that the Russians now ignore so called restrictions so long they don’t involve strategic weapons.
There are several restrictions on what is available to sell to China, despite what the bureaus themselves wish.
And what happened to them now? In the end, its more talk and myth than real action.
Its the neighbour syndrome.
Somehow the money syndrome eclipses it greatly.
You may be a friendly and non threatening nation to Russia, but those two adjectives are not going to feed the Russian engineer and his family.
Russia wants to get as much Chinese money as possible whilst trying to push “not the latest” stuff across with as limited TOT as possible,
Except now they know the Chinese don’t want the older stuff anymore. But then, the Chinese also don’t want the latest stuff the Russians are selling only half baked.
The Russians are pulling all stops because they are in bad need of developmental money.
Anyways, I dont need to convince you because you wont be. You are a hardcore supporter of China and you will start flaming since you perceive this to be an insult- be assured it isnt, I am just calling it as I see it, based on my own talks with several russian arms design people – from phazotron, NIIP, klimov, salyut and a few others.
Lol you are so funny. And you actually want me to believe you? When they talk to you, they will only say things that is nice for you to hear, and you must be either an idiot or downright naive to believe them. Actions speak louder than words…remember that always because you of all people, seem to consistently forget that the most.
Its all right there in black and white. Klimov’s TVC nozzle? Guess who its being sold to. Salyut has upgraded their engine and guess to whom it is being sold to. Phazotron and NIIP are actively marketing their phase radars in China, especially they know the gap in phase arrays is rapidly closing given the Chinese advances in air defense and early warning phase arrays such as in the 052C and the KJ AWACS.
I know it hurts you to believe, but the facts are the facts.
crobatoLast year during Sino-Russian exercises. China not interested however to buy refurbished second hand jets.
crobatothey do not sell Tu-22 or Tu-160 yet and they treat Chinese worker in their country bad.. even when the worker is working in land that belong to China! Russia still do not give back Siberia. We only team with them because of USA
Tu-160 isn’t offered for sale to anyone but Russia did offer Tu-22M3 to China.
crobatothe airframe of the JF-17 does look primitive compared to the J-10 or any other serious domestic oriented design. small wings with high loading arent suited much to A2A role.
Tell that to the FW-190, the MiG-21 and the F-16.
I was thinking that the JF-17 has roughly the same wing area as an F-16. But compared to the F-16C, it’s also over two tons lighter when empty. Thus I don’t really see wing loading an issue with the JF-17.
As to looking primitive, well I say this. I don’t consider the J-10, the LCA, the Typhoon (especially), the Gripen, and the Rafale looking very advanced either from an external point of view. Take out the canards i don’t see that much of an advancement externally over a Mirage 2000 or even a Mirage III.
Without expressedly designing VLO reflective surfaces, aerodynamic fighter design has reached a dead end, and you really cannot do much beyond this point as it becomes more like computers and wind tunnels designing them. The air does not give a hoot what looks modern or not; it only knows an eternally timeless shape where it can pass through with the minimum of drag and interference.
crobatoThere were many reports of the Bars being available to the PLAAF too, ultimately nothing came of them. I daresay the same will happen with the Irbis. NIIP and Phazatron couldnt care a damn as to what they sell to China as long as the money flows in, the Russian Govt is much more restrictive and often intervenes to prevent the latest stuff from going to China.
I have never seen any credible report of BARS being offered to the PLAAF. If you do, please show it. As far as I know, Kopyo F (phase array version), Zhuk ME Zhemchug, Zhuk MSE and Zhuk MSFE (Sokol) are the only ones being offered to the PLAAF from the Phazotron side. and the N001VEPF aka Panda, using the Pero phase array, is the one being offered from the NIIP side.
As far as the Russians still being restrictive to what they sell to China, hehe… that issue has been down the drain a long time ago.
crobatoThe regional commander to whom the responsibility for the sub falls, was demoted. But now he’s been repromoted as no. 2 in the PLAN command hierarchy.
It does appear, and quite for some time now, that PLAAF stopped the habit of sacking people everytime a crash happens.
crobatoI think you have confused the designation with another type. The F-86 seems more like the one you mention. The F-84F Thunderstreak did not have slats.
Oh darn it. Brain freeze again!
crobatoThe few things I know about the F-84F is the hydraulically operated tail that lets the pilot turn the plane easily at high speeds without having macho muscles on the arm to do it. Previously the faster you go, the harder you have to pull on the stick as they tend to get cement bucket heavy.
Another is the reversion to a “hard” wing. Previously, F-84s use have leading edge moving slats in the wings to give it some variable camber. But in this model, they removed that, switched to a hard wing with a slight change in geometry, then added wing fences. Said to perform better at higher speeds.
crobatoYou would have to tie up most of your resources just to protect your AWACS! Regardless, I doubt it could work…….the F-22’s could destroy those forces piecemeal. “One layer at a time!”
Yeah by brute force but it won’t have its stealth cover.
What I am describing isn’t a layer by the way. If you are using passive multistatic radar, even celphone repeater stations can be potentially used as emitters.
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