There are good isnigths come up, but mostly explaining the historical events that lead into western domination.
And also its quite hilarious to quote that West (europe and its sibling, european USA) isent the dominator of the world, can you seriously claim that some other factor than western ideology directly rose from meditereinian civilications isent controlling the world? Well maybe there are sings of tides beeing changhing and China is going to rise, but it isent the case here, we are talking of history.

So yeas, China has been strongest power of its time, But it never rosed into global dominator as the British Empire did and followed by US and USSR, both orginally European powers whit outside geopolitical reach. Why werent the opium wars fougth on Mediterinian?

Why are drugs being sold and fought in the US? Simple. Because the drugs follow the money.

As for China being a world power and a denominator, she has every right to be one for the same reasons the Roman Empire did. For over a millenia, the Romans dominated their side of the world, the Chinese did on their side—culturally, economically, and militarily. In fact, one can say the Chinese held their dominance longer, although they had their ups and downs too. The Hans and Tangs ruled virtually in much of the same expense modern China is today, from north of Korea to Afghanistan to southwards pushing to South East Asia. She also left an lasting imprint with all the cultures she has come in contact with, which is to say, with every country in the Far East.

But here is the major difference. The Roman empire and civilization is long gone, but the Chinese civiliation and empire is still with us.

Also Hamburger, crobato, Chinawhite you all seem to be quite certain that Chinese idelogyes and philoshophyes are some how made chinese less willingless to concuere world, but Im not byuing that so easy. What are philoshpyes? Morrale and ethichal auchrorityes more than bit clever versions of religions, whos only task is to explain world from lack of sience and more importantly explaining to people why the current rulers are on power. Why would chinese/asian ideologyes be anyway better than European ones in that case?

Asian philosophies are based in seeking harmony with the universe and harmony with one’s self. You can see simlar themes with Shinto, Taoism, Buddism, and Confucianism.

Simply said, can you tell me from over 5,000 years of history of China and other nations in the Far East, where did they ever involved themselves in a religious war to spread some faith or subdue some heresy. When did any Asian nation killed people “in the name of God.”

Or looking from other wiev, if the Religions are that way, why they have envolped in china into likenes of stagnation and isolation?

Because they do not inspire missionary zeals and crusades. The Spanish and the Portugese explored the world for both greed and to save the souls of the heathen. The religious wars in Europe forced both social and military evolution in a grand technological scale.

Eventually the religious extremes forced secularism in Europe, and with the introduction of secularist philosophies, created secular ideologies and the rise of science. Most importantly was the development of the Scientific Method.

Philoshophyes, ideologyes and religions arent anywya outcluded from sientific point of view, they cannot simple explain something and end the subject there, they all have theyr roots and orgins directly affected by vertical elements of sosiety in general.

Umm…if the Church had its way, all the budding scientists and secularists would have been burned at the stake. In fact, what held down Europe from an even faster progress had been the Inquisition and the witch burning.

In China, there has been a tradition of continued hands on experimentation, which led to the developments we saw in the Ming Dynasty, such as the porcelain wares, the Treasure ships and various advancements in metallurgy. Recently, the metal linchpin supporting a massive 52,000kg brass bell built during the Ming Dynasty could only have done its purpose (imagnie a 52000kg something swinging fromi this pin) , if the tensile strength of the metal used on the 3 foot pin would have matched today’s aeronautical standards.

But somehow, China in the later Qnig period, lost the technological ability to build something like the Yongle bell again, or Zheng He’s treasure ships, which was only matched by 19th Century Clipper ships in scale and seaworthiness, and remains today, the largest wooden ships ever built. Why so? Because the stratified Confucian think took over much of Chinese culture, and the Confucians emphasized authority over innovation, the elderly over the young, order over chaos. It is for the same reasons why Chinese medicine and accupuncture which made its greatest advancements under the Sung and the Ming Dynasties, failed to move forward, and even regressed, under the Qing. One can’t blame the Qing for it, they merely inherited the apparatus from the Ming, and the Confucians literally took over by the time of Zheng He himself.

The ordered retirement and scrapping of the five Treasure ships was the pivotal moment of China’s history, the one symbolic act that defines her turn from the scientific and engineering achievements she made for centuries, into a road of gradual decay that only ended in the latter part of the 20th Century.

It remains today, a lesson which every country should heed.

Amd I know how European powers wiped South Americans, But the guestion migth be repraised as Why didnt South American disieases wipe out Europeans? Why european disiases were better than South Americans.

The Americas was never as heavily populated as Asia-Africa-Europe which are all connected. Pandemics tend to arise in the most heavily populated areas, like in China for example, because there is so much fertile material (simply a lot of humans) for viruses to evolve. In the Renaissance era, European ports were extermely dense and crowded—places were really filthy slums—while ships travelled, bringing back all sorts of diseases.

Ask yourself, why is there a Bubonic plague in Europe?

At the moment both Indian and Chinese Navies are on a shopping spree in Russia to buy jets, subs, ships.

Correction. Maybe India is in a shopping spree, but China isn’t. China has not logged signing a contract for a complete Russian weapons system since the end of 2003. All China does now is collect what she had earlier ordered around 2003, and buying things like engines and transport aircraft. The fact that she has not bought an Su-30 for a while throws into question that she will buy an Su-30 again. The Russians are the ones now bringing their wares to the Chinese door and trying to sell them like the Avon lady. It also puts to light the question whether China has found something better.

For your info those comments about what a Chinese pilot average yearly hours of flying from the 1970 to 2000 are not coming out of my imagination. It comes straight from a former Chinese fighter pilot who ended up his career as 4 star General, I think knows better than you and I what he has done during his career with the PLAAF.

Except that he ended his career just before the last five years when the PLAAF had the most reorganizations and changes in any period of its history. The PLAAF began spiking up the flight hours starting around the 2002 time period, and seems to have cut loose in the exercises, allowing more maneuvers of greater risk. Prior to 2003, if you get a Flanker into an accident, heads witl roll and the regiment is grounded for a while. Nowadays, the relentless training won’t stop regardless of accidents.

From my side it was just to share what can be said as very reliable information and give some insight about it, nothing else.

The J-5, J-6, J-7 fly an average of 45mn per sorties, which would come to about 125 missions a year.I would not take for granted that a Class A fighter pilot fly 300 hours a year on the J-11. The J-11 has been a difficult plane to handle in the PLAAF, there was quite a few crashes during the last couple of years and it is going to take few more years before those problems are all solved. This is due to the fact that the techonlogy gap between the J-7, J-8 and the J-11 is quite steep and it takes a lot of learning and training to handle it.

To come back to the subject it would be interesting to have the Russion give India the chance to try their MiG-29K against the Su-30Mkk and compare it how they handle.

Category B units should still fly around 70 to 100 hours a year. One report I have puts J-11/Su-30 pilots at 180 hours a year. I understand that Sukhoi only recommends 200 flight hours per year for each aircraft, and if you go beyond their recommendations you are on your own when it comes to service. Which is exactly what China did (throwing a middle finger at Sukhoi) by hiring Ukrainians to help do the service and maintenance on the Flankers. So we can assume that each plane is running over 200 flight hours per year.

KANWA has mentioned before that some pilots, facing as much as 285 flight hours per year, are complaining of the stress, and the PLAAF has relaxed the required maneuvers if the pilot is not up to it.

I understand that each Flanker has about three pilots assigned to them. I compute that a pilot gets about 70 to 80 hours of flight time in a Flanker, then takes up flight hours on other aircraft, in particular, with J-7Es, which is a favorite for DACT and ACM.

As for accidents it is hard to determine what planes are truly involved. I’ve seen people claim what appears to be a tail fin wreckage of an Su-27, but on closer examination, it appears to be more of a J-7’s rudder. What I do know is that a large number of the Su-27s bought over a decade ago are still operational, although I heard reports they would be retired soon.

As for the technology gap, I think your comments should be valid at the time when the Su-27s first arrived over a decade ago. Today, it is generally regarded that the Su-27’s with its radar, cockpit and avionics, are primitive compared to the latest versions of Chinese aircraft, like the J-10 and JH-7A, which feature a lot of MFDs and digital based instrumentation. Even the latest versions of J-8II, the J-8D, J-8H and J-8F, all feature two MFDs in their cockpits while the Su-27 only has one CRT in the cockpit (note: the newer J-11s features a modification that adds another MFD on the cockpit).

China was pretty much a dominant power in terms of population size and GDP, and was number one in GDP till the 1920s or so. One can see that during the Ming Dynasty it was clearly the most advanced the world in just about everything. The size, the scale, the technology of Zheng Ho’s fleet would clearly attest to this.

So what happened? Unlike the Europeans who were greedy and ambitious, the Chinese taught themselves as having already the best in the world and sees little need to colonize South East Asia and other parts of the world. At the same time, the Confucianists began to supplant the more liberal minded and analytic eunuchs, which Zheng He is one, and began to increasingly layer the strict Confucianist philosophy upon the country. The philosophy stresses harmony and obedience to hierarchy and elders as opposed to independent analysis and innovation.

Europe on the other hand, was in a continious state of war and turmoil. The result of chaos is the desperate need to improve on technology and military, and surpass all competition, followed by the creation of methods of analysis and implementation, most importantly the Scientific Method. You can call it a very harsh form of social evolution. As a result, the fittest survive.

Equally important was that Europe became secular by cutting the legs off the Church. If Europe remained under the heel of the Church in the dominant extent as it was in the Middle Ages, Europe would still be extremely backward now. Religion got the better of the Roman Empire, the Middle East, the Far East, even that of the early American civilizations, who at one time, were showing a lot of technological promise. There is a constant struggle between Science and Religion. Those who embraced Religion as a wholistic concept—that it also controls politics, society, and science—were eventually doomed to fail, while those who seperate religion from the secular fields—were the ones who advanced.

As for the Europeans wiping out native cultures in the Americas, a lot of that has to do of Europeans unintentionally introducing the flu to entire races and nations of people who were not genetically adapted against it. And so they died by the droves. Similar things occured when Europeans visited populations in the South Pacific.

If China is going to build a carrier, it certainly won’t be a 40k ton one but something based on the Varyag. Having said that, they’re not in a rush to build one, just getting the Varyag up and running so they can play with it and gather valuable experience in the use of one.

An ominous use for the Varyag is to use the carrier as a floating and moving practice target for ships, subs and planes.

Pretty sure there is a shore based Ka-28 regiment. There had been pictures of them and they’re located not far from the Shanghai area. The copters are all in green. Z-9C is a sure thing for most Chinese destroyers, though the 167 Luhai is big enough for Ka-28s.

Ka-28 on 052B

http://mil.jschina.com.cn/huitong/ship/168_Ka-28.jpg

believe the new sov’s carry the VDS? as for chinese tas i havent seen any evidence these vessels have that looking at the design unless you have any evidence to the contrary. Also it doesnt make sense for them to have TAS considering 051C doesnt even a hanger for ASW helo’s. As for china having better ashm than moskit what are you talking about..

There are pics of TAS among one of the destroyers (168 I think) in the CDF. Buried in a lengthy thread though.