I think the Backfire-C platfrom is excellent, as it is able to carry a heavy conventional cruise missile strike, with either the Kh-22M (or newer Kh-32) or the Kh-15 aeroballistic/hypersonic missile.. definately worthwile if you are going to fend off a large fleet..
But I doubt that the Russians would be selling those missiles [read: MTR treaty] and the Chinese are sure to make it conditional with any possible purchase. And when the Chinese buy such a package, it will only be small, but enough to provide material for them to create a similar bomber, albeit with a fixed wing. They would also create their own cruise missiles, but wait, the Chinese have already created their own cruise missiles, and so they have a greater fundamental need to get a platform to launch their own missiles.
The “Leopard” is new, but state of art really?
No better or worst than an Su-24, but certainly good enough for anti ship missions, precision strike and air defense suppression.
Why is China wasting money in building outdated aircraft like B-6 and others any longer?! 😀
Then why do you need to add another outdated model then to the list?
The H-6s are being used merely as cruise missile trucks. That is not a demanding job. You don’t need Backfires to do that. If anything, VG wing aircraft would actually reduce the number of cruise missiles you can carry under the wing.
But it’s a big step forward from the Tu-16 in terms of speed, payload and range, isn’t it?
That’s not the point. You don’t need dedicated bombers at this point. Would the Tu-22M2 be superior over the Tu-16 in carrying cruise missiles? Would it make any difference?
Fighter bombers today make up the brunt of all bombing work the last 20 years or so. Look at the tonnage dropped by the F-16, F-18, F-14 and F-15 strike Eagles against that was dropped by the B-1B. Even B-52s have proven to remain more useful. China already got its Su-30MKKs, Su-27s and J-11s, even J-10s.
It’s not the point that is better than the Tu-16 either. But the point is, is it better than the projected H-X the Chinese themselves are working on? The Chinese have not been impressed with VG wing mechanisms, their fragility, bulkiness, and of their maintenance requirements. The whole plane itself is not stealthy. Call it what you will, but it remains a cold war relic. The Chinese are better off trying to design a subsonic very low observable bomber with fixed wings that they themselves could deploy after 2010.
12,500kg max thrust.
China wouldn’t be interested in the TU-22M3 if they don’t include the newest cruise missiles.Wow….Russia rebuffing India’s request is pretty amazing since they are offering it to China, since India and Russia care all cozy and all. All in all, I think China should spend more money on Su-30MKK1/2/3/.
I agree with that, on all three points.
crobato,
But don’t you think China would like to import a few just to get the engine technology and whatever other technologies it is interested in?
Not something that outdated.
Oh yeah: one obvious giveaway if the engine is for military combat aircraft is the -F suffix, which indicates an afterburner. That’s what basically what separates the Il-76es D-30 with the D-30F from the MiG-31.
Interesting. Good to know.
What about PLAAF getting Fc1’s? We have heard one side about PLAAF getting same 150 as PAF and other side telling it will only go for J10. Next year the production line will start.
I say the chances of PLAAF getting FC-1s is looking quite good now. If the Russians will be forced to overcome any objections to sell RD-93 engines that will be used on the Pakistani FC-1s, China has to give them a major deal in quantity that Russia could not refuse. We may be talking literally of hundreds of engines here. If China cannot sell the FC-1s to other countries, they would have to absorb the engines into their own fleet (big) of FC-1s. This may also politically bind Pakistan to keep its order of FC-1s to 150 and above, and cannot reduce them.
With this, the PLAAF may finally decide to kill the low enders like the J-7G and the J-8F.
There is some question marks still going around, and that is how reliable the RD-93 can prove to be.
Not really. I’m not sure if the designation is correct.
AL-31F Basic AL-31F appearing in Su-27, 12,500kg max thrust
AL-31FN gearbox on downward position, used on J-10.
AL-31FP With TVC nozzle, used on Su-30MKI
AL-31FM 12,800kg thrust higher than AL-31F, used on Su-35.
AL-31FM1 13,200kg thrust, to be used on Su-35 and Su-27SM future variant.
AL-31FM2 even more powerful than FM1
AL-31SC? Used on Su-24
Would you believe there are AL-31 variants used for ships as well?
Crobato,
I’m surprised that you don’t show much remorse over that fact. I know that there are only so many things that Backfires can do that Badgers can’t and that, clrealy, these extra capabilities aren’t worth the airframe and operating costs… But… It would sure be useful for the Chinese aviation industry if they could draw on the PLAAF’s experience of operating large super-sonic bombers. Especially if the Chinese ever plan on making one of their own.
When China considered Backfires back in the nineties, the Russian General Staff was opposed to it. Up to now, there are still officials in the Russian government that is still opposed to the sale of strategic weapons to China, considering China still a strategic competitor and potential enemy. The Chinese and the Russian export agency have built an entire arms procurement strategy based around this. The Chinese are not going to trust the Russians on such matters, fearing that the Russians would bug or cripple the aircraft.
In any case, the Chinese Tu-16s are merely used as cruise missile launchers. Backfires are not going to be better on this mediocre role.
China tends to avoid provocative arms purchases in trying to keep some sense of harmony with its neighbors. The Sovremannies, Kilos and the Su-30MKKs are enough to test the boundaries of these controversiality. They are not going to push this one level higher AKA by purchasing Slavas, Akulas, and Backfires.
As far as what the Chinese is going to do is to take a serious look at the aircraft (as if they’re buying it), but in reality are just gathering enough information to set the parameters for their own H-6 replacement.
Bombers are only as good as the stuff they carry. What do you propose that Chinese Backfires should carry to help deter US carrier groups? If that is the case, why can’t such missiles be already carried by Su-30MKKs, JH-7As or H-6s?
There are also many questions about logistics, service, and support. China seems happy enough with the Sovies and the Kilos but not on the Su’s. I don’t think the PLAAF would be willing to take the additional logistical burden of carrying a new plane and engine type. I also want to make clear to everyone on board that China never buys used and second hand stuff for their own armed service regardless of how many hours you have on the frame. They’re (the Chinese officials) are truly fixated on the idea that things they buy must always be new. This fixation is simply not a point to be questioned, discussed or debated. They want it that way and that’s final. (The only used stuff they buy either goes to the scrapyard or gets studied by engineers).
Before, it was the Chinese who knock on the Russians door to buy weapons. Now it’s the Russians knocking the Chinese doors to sell weapons. Huh? Are the Russians really concerned that the EU might actually lift its embargo?
Interesting. I thought J-7s without missiles are only authorized to intercept the EP-3s. Low speed characteristics of J-6 and J-8II are not very good, unlike J-7, which makes the J-7 better to shadow a slow moving propeller aircraft.
Honestly you should just stick with Amazon and not a vendor you don’t know. Amazon is reliable and the service is good. I’ve been buying from them for years now.
In a dogfight, I will probably vote for the MiG-19, which has gained a bad habit of shooting down jets said to be more modern than itself.
But it’s probably more of a headache to maintain in an airforce than the Hun.
As for the questions to the retired PLAAF pilot, ask him how the J-6 flies vs. the early J-7. Which is the better jet of the two? Which would he prefer? What is the best version of the J-6 in his opinion? What do the pilots honestly feel about this plane? How reliable or unreliable is it? Just milk it out of him the best way you can.