But the case is that I just returned from a ride through the South Chinese Sea and finding these Chinese ships might be a little harder than you think. We were bound for Japan, yet still crossing the South China Sea and only turning below Taiwan. If you want to lay in the Taiwan strait to hunt for Chinese ships, you’ll have some trouble, since the water is VERY shallow there, not a good area to go with your SSN.
That 272 is certainly not a good number, it might be good if that number only counts for VLCCs and ULCCs, maybe including supertankers, but nothing below that. In the entire world, there are about 48.000 ocean going ships. This of course does include the inshore traders.

It’s pretty shallow right to the coast of Japan to the Ryuku island chains, down to Singapore, all along Indonesia to its eastern most island. It’s all littoral waters. Not a good place for SSNs.

Have to agree with Steve here on the blockade Op. If a conflict with China was underway, stopping and sinking ships like tankers on their way to China (or from) would have to help in bringing them to the negotiating table, and one would hope a swift end to the fighting for everyone’s sake. Sea denial is something that the PLAN is currently unable to challenge beyond it’s own waters. The Chinese would be in an untenable position, and would either have to reconsider the fight, or take it the next level in response.

Won’t work considering that much of China’s oil is increasingly coming through Siberian and Asian pipelines. Not to mention it has oil reserves of its own and is capable of synthesizing them from coal.

!!!!!

A 1:1 scale model of the JH-7A in wood 😀

Given the background, this is almost certainly the same JH-7A mockup in the picture published by Jane’s and appears in many websites.

Taiwan has a phased array radar called Chang Bei, which was done by a local institute with the help of Raytheon. It has a claimed 500km range, 100 target detection ability, able to track and engage 24 targets. It is the guidance radar for the Tien Kung 1 missile (a SARH missile) and the Tien Kung 2 missile (active radar with infrared back up). On paper it looks like its better than both Patriot and AEGIS.

The PRC’s counter to that baby may be the HT-233 phase array which looks like roughly MPQ-53 inspired. The specs are as hoary as the Chang Bei’s, with 490km range detection, 100 targets being tracked, engaging 50 of them if used in conjunction with a brigage control and command center.

China has a variety of radars too. The SLC-2 is an active phase array used to enemy missile and artillery firings, then direct your own artillery, missile and MLRS to it. There is something called the YLC-2 or YLC-3 which is a large search phase array radar.

The phase array on the DDG 170/171 remains unidentified despite so many photos of it. No name and no specs have been given.

China’s first airborne pulse doppler is the SR-4 or Type 204 that was used on the J-8I. It is meant to use the PL-4 missile which is a Sparrow copy. This makes me suspect it is probably based more on US design (probably from remnants of Phantoms in Vietnam) than the Saphir 23 on the MiG-23. It had its problems, with a short lived operational life, but in 1985, it earned its designers some awards, since it was a technological breakthrough. Previous to that, Chinese fighter radars appear to be a little more than glorified radar recievers with emitters based on old Soviet designs. Most of them were unreliable, so basically the Chinese pilots don’t use radar and rely mainly on GCI for situational awareness and mission commands.

The JL-7 by Leihua Institute was the radar fitted on the J-7III. So this is the first time a decent pulse doppler was developed for use on the J-7 series. But it had its problems too. The 70km detection range was a bit ambitious, so 20-30km was more like its detection range—actually in synch with the MiG-21’s RP-21/Saphir-21. But in the mid to late eighties, it was not good enough to have a radar that performs like the MiG-21’s in the early seventies.

The JL-7A is the improved version of this radar, no doubt with Israeli help because all of sudden, the radar is able to cue PL-8s, an all aspect missile based on the Python 3. It seemed successful enough and was fitted on the J-7D. A version, the JL-7AG, was fitted on the J-8Is to form the J-8E, replacing the Type 204 or SR4 radars. JL-7A is probably the basis for the successful Type 226 radar used on the J-7E, which seems to have a 50km detection range and can que the PL-8.

For the J-9 project the Type 205 was developed, but that went downhill when the J-9 went downhill. For the J-8II, there came the Type 208, which succeeded the Type 204. The Type 208 learned from the Type 204, with similar characteristics, a BVR radar with PL-10 missiles, but even that is not good enough. Numerous problems with the radar was so bad, China looked to the US in the late eighties to upgrade its J-8IIs with APG-66s, resulting in the Peace Pearl program.

In the early to mid nineties, the Israelis were stepping in,and their effects on the Chinese defense industry began to be noticed. a J-8C prototype was tested in 1995 with the ELTA M 2034 radar, a derivant of the 2035 tested on the Lavi. The next year after was a major breakthrough, this time from the Nanjing Institute—the Type 1471 radar or KLJ-1. This was the first successful slotted array pulse doppler in China, with look down, multiple targeting and BVR capabilities (PL-11 missile). Subsequently, all J-8IIs were fitted and upgraded with it from the J-8D on, as well as a “Block 2” J-8II based on the J-8D. The lock on range is supposedly around 60 to 70km and more as this is used to test the PL-10/11 missile. There appears to be a gradual evolution and improvement on this radar, as later J-8IIs appear to have support for the YJ-91, and the latest variant of the radar in the J-8F is used to test the SD-10/PL-12. This may indicate that the lock on range of the radar has gradually increased to about 70 to 80km or so.

Leihua continued to develop other radars, the Type 232H for the JH-7 is probably China’s first multirole radar. It had terrain following, terrain mapping, sea search, and support for antiship missiles. It had a shaky history, so the follow up was the JL-10A radar, probably China’s first successful multirole slotted array pulse doppler. This was heavily tested on the JH-7 083 prototype. The JL-10A radar and fire control system is probably China’s most sophisticated yet—it can support the PL-12, the YJ-91/Kh-31P missile with a pod, AshMs like the C-803, a laser targeting pod, and so on. It is said to be able to track while scan 15 targets, and could engage 4 to 6 of them. the lock on range is supposed to be about 80km. The radar ended up in the second batch of JH-7s and the JH-7A. Note that Leihua is also the developer of the SD-10 missle.

Leihua probably hoped that the JL-10A radar would bag the J-10 contract, but instead, the contract fell to the KLJ-3 radar by Nanjing Insittute (NRIET). This was probably the next generation of design after the KLJ-1, and NRIET appears to be in a roll since. They bagged the J-7G contract with the KLJ-6E, and there are rumors and reports that the J-11s might be fitted with the KLJ series type. My guess is that the KLJ-3 might have specs similar to the JL-10A. Some loose figures include a 160km detection range, 100km combat lock on range, 24 targets detection, 4 to 6 targets being engaged. Apparently this radar seems good enough to change plans on using a Russian or Israeli radar on the J-10s as originally planned.

Leihua also showed a small K-band radar on shows.

well apparently the copies dont work as much as the original coz there’s no reason to be spending a billion $$ today if cheaper ‘clones’ are available. I

It is probable that the “copies” have reached the PMU1 level but not the PMU2 level.

Still, China has only acquired a measly 12 battalions in all, plus another eight for this new purchase, distributed them all over the coast. Compared to like nearly 40 batteries around the Moscow area alone.

So yeah, it seems like there are major gaps (more like canyon like chasms) in the AD shield, which had to be filed by something else. Purportedly, this HQ-9 system—how do you think China could have developed a naval version for 052C if they don’t have a land based system first?

When can we exspect the first Chinese copies of it? To afford a suffient number of such expensive system, you have to built it yourself.

They probably already did. I don’t think they would copy exactly, but they could learn from it. I suspect their HQ-9 systems, which performs roughly in the same level as the 48N6 misslies with a pseudo MPQ-53 style unit from the PAC, can operate in conjunction or cooperation with S-300 units, meaning both systems could pass information with each other or even control each other’s missiles. The Russians are actually surprised that the Chinese did not order as many S-300s as the Russians thought they would.

As for the 9M96 missiles, that’s used against less valued targets, or even used to defend the complex itself.

google, on the third contract, Pinkov is saying that that the order of this S300PMU1A consists of 96L6E phase array radar units from the PMU2, but using the 48N6E missiles from the PMU1, sort of like a hybrid.

I don’t know much about that radar, except it is a derivant of the AWG-10 from the Phantom family. AWG-10->AWG-11->AWG-12. The British Phantoms with the Speys were users of the AWG-12 radar. That and the Rolls Royce engines on the plane, and the Jaguar like appearance, makes you wonder how much influence does the Brits have on the F-1.