why mil spec?

I was likely using the wrong terminology, but I was assuming any new tanker would have mil spec comms, its fire suppressants/damage control systems would be more robust than a normal tanker, and that beyond the replenishment at sea system they would also fitted with a more sophisticated radar system, and possibly with a CIWS.

A reasonable idea, but please, please don’t confuse it with the (now shelved) C3 proposal. What you’re suggesting is a low-end C2, not C3. See below.

It seems to me that the RN needs a 4 tier system – T26 and a more generalist frigate on the T26 hull (as a high end C2), and then a smaller light frigate similar to ones described previously (medium gun, 2 x 30 mm cannon, provision but not normally fitted for 2 quad-SSM launchers and 16-cell CAMM, decoys, sonar, a couple of rigid inflatable boats, and a hangar and pad for Lynx) for secondary roles in a low end C2 role, and then a C3 to eventually replace the minesweepers/hydrographic survey and maybe diver support vessels with a 30 mm cannon, a couple of machine guns, and flex space for mission modules.

Furthermore it is the smaller lighter frigate (call it light C2) that if the money was available, we should be concentrating on procuring.

Is it worth discussing the pro’s and con’s of a Hi Lo RN? I certainly think a very capable C3 platform, or even a very low end C2 platform (like a 4,000 tonne light frigate) is a good idea, but surely with proliferation of anti-ship missiles to non-state actors that a large C3/Light C2 would be quite vulnerable even with a 76mm rapid firing gun (capable of interdicting a missile) and a couple of CCM Centurion soft-kill decoy systems?

While I would like to see something at the more capable end of the spectrum (like the Venator) for C3 built now I suspect that the RN will resist C3 as they will worry that any spend on C3 now will mean less money on the T26 and less frigates in the future

Sea Viper has now passed every trial its been put through including the recent salvo fire testing. Its last hurdle before full acceptance in the RN is the shipboard firing set for the end of this year.

Sorry to be a bit thick Jonesy, but according to the MoD the Dauntless is test firing the Sea Viper tomorrow – is this just a simulated launch?

http://www.blogs.mod.uk/

More of the same the doom and gloom this time from the Guardian, it reads like they wrote it based on reading the story in the Times and the Telegraph:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/24/trident-delay-defence-review

Some key snippets:

Plans for the first carrier, Queen Elizabeth, due to enter service in 2015-16, will go ahead, but the capacity of the second – to be called Prince of Wales – will be severely reduced and the project delayed, sources say.

Reduction in capacity mentioned again.

The navy, meanwhile, will have to forfeit a significant number of the 18 new frigates it wants and also possibly reduce its planned fleet of six new £1bn- a-piece Type 45 destroyers. The navy’s fleet of landing dock vessels and supply ships is also expected to be cut. Other candidates for the chop – or cuts – are plans for a new range of helicopters for all three services.

Mention of cutting Type 45’s again, not sure how much of a saving you could get as I assume 99% of the money is already spent. How far along are the last two Type 45’s? I also presume if they sell them no one is going to pay more than £400 – £500 million for them.

I note the MoD has given up denying the rumours at least in the daily e-mail I subscribe to, where in the past they issued a rebuttal each time one of these stories surfaced.

While cutting the Navy (apart from reducing the minesweepers) seems crazy, I cannot but hope that any cut means that in the next budget cycle in 2015 they will spend serious cash on RN, I think it is unlikely but I live in hope. I also hope that they decide to bring C3 forward to this budget cycle. I presume that they could build a Venator style C3 ship for around £100 million, and I hope with all the cuts they could still find the money build 4 or 5 ships to at least continue routine patrols in the Caribbean and the anti-piracy mission in the Indian ocean.

What is more interesting is if you believe all the stories about the cuts what are we going to do with all the old but still serviceable equipment, presumable sell as much of it as possible otherwise it is going to cost us to dispose of it – the Puma’s if refitted could last at least another 10 years in front line service and I would imagine that any of the Francophile countries would love them. If we sell off the Type 42, with a bit of modernisation they would make a decent all round escort, ditto for the Type 22/23’s we are meant to be selling off, though I am not sure who is the market for old destroyers/frigates that have been refitted with new but not top spec systems. I presume the Gazelle’s and Sea King’s are to old to sell on even with a refit, but if the dispose of both the C-130K and J’s then I would imagine an existing Hercules operator would love the K’s for spares and the improve performance of the J’s

After this Tuesday certain decisions will have been taken by the NSC and are bound to be leaked. Fox himself has already leaked that we’ll continue with the F35, and that the UK will have ‘global projection’

I’m sure (well, I hope!) what we’re hearing in the media is the worst case scenario.

Well I hope you are right as I certainly think the RN needs to be bigger than Portugal’s (see: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Weakened-navy-will-put-the.6550409.jp) and the irony is there is no money to refit the ships with modern systems to at least get another 15-20 years out of them, presuming we could refit them to make them more useful, nor is there likely enough money to make even a 1 for 1 replacement.