Roll on the 20th October so we can see the proper details as at the moment we have lots and lots of different rumours, partial scenarios and comments.

All I can say is that the idea of making PoW more like a commando carrier has been floating around since the beginning and it is odds on something is going to happen to it as there must be some truth in the various stories, and I would not be surprised if it does up the cost in the long run, or that any such change to the PoW is the excuse to get rid of Ocean, Albion or Bulwark and some of the Bays on the grounds that the new PoW duplicates their capabilities!

What worried me about the article was a) that it is second article to mention cuts to the Type 45, and I know in the past there was some export interest and I worry that some bright spark is going to suggest selling two Type 45’s, and b) the mention of cuts in helicopters – I am still rather peeved that it looks like they will cut 35 Puma and the Sea King’s with them being “replaced” with just 12 Chinooks who cannot really do the same jobs (obviously the Merlin’s are meant to be transferred to replace the Sea King’s). It’s a shame that there is no money to buy more Merlin’s or if the Merlin is not what the Army wants something they prefer. Hell, why cannot we sell the Puma’s back to Eurocopter and use this to off set the cost of some new Cougar’s or Super Puma’s.

Of course getting rid of amphib ships, cutting such a large portion of the RN and RAF personnel, and presuming that the second mention of downgrading PoW represents something real, the replacement of 65,000 tonne CVF with a smaller LHD is pretty devastating as well. This article also makes it clear that the Army will loose 20,000 men in 2015. Afghanistan has simply postponed their cuts and the sensible expenditure to upgrade or replace Army equipment in favour of UOR for small amounts of kit solely for Afghanistan and I would not be surprised post Afghanistan that the Army gets cut even more than it would if it was cut now.

Well I have looked at the Venator design before, I think what I envisage would be slightly larger. I certainly like them to consider fitting Oto Merala Strala or a combination of the BAE MK 110 with a Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm Naval Revolver Gun System turret (though this would for more of a real frigate than a OPV)

EDIT: I suspect there is some overlap between the MK 110 and the Oerlikon Millennium as the MK 11O can be used as CIWS as well but uses smaller calibre ammo that the Strala.

Can we maybe use as the example of why the UK needs a strong navy as either Rockall or maybe the Artic, as every thread I ever read that mentions the Falkland Islands (except the one on ARRSE) always ends up getting closed down as the subject is simply too emotive (as I am half Spanish, I certainly know it leads to very loud “discussions” when I end up discussing with my Spanish relatives)

Second carrier or “anything else” is nonsense.

I think that there is a need to separate the contractual position of the MoD from the defence requirements of the MoD. As stated by both BAE in the Defence Select Committee and by a liberal democrat MP, there is a contractual requirement to provide a level of work worth a set amount of money in the event of cancelling carriers. At this point logically they would build something they can use rather than something the cannot use. What that might be is a mystery.

From the point of view of defence requirements two carriers is better than one or none.

And if your read the minutes of the recent Parliamentary Defence Select Committee something that BAE was asked a question about and they admitted they were asked explore the impact of this sort of option (one carrier and something else to fulfil the contractual requirements to provide a set level of work). Of course I immediately jumped to conclusion that they were considering something like LHD being built – it fits with the one carrier and one helicopter carrier rhetoric, I am fond of LHD’s and it also fits with the rumours of mothballing some of the other amphib assault ships. I also suspect the RN might accept one carrier over no carriers if that is their options.

If anyone is interested I will repost but it is also available in naval section of this forum.

I know the SDSR is going to see cuts, cuts, cuts but is there any room in both UK shipping building capacity and the budget for the UK to commission one or two Type 26 in this budget cycle to demonstrate that it is not a paper tiger but a real working design? After all the Conservatives are meant to favour exportable kit.