StonewallEssais du Rafale Porte Avions Foch 1994
StonewallEssais du Rafale Porte Avions Foch 1994 *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkqE4PxjmA
Brazil plans a new AC but not for now (there are some rumours about a conventional-powered version of Charles de Gaulle)
*Foch= SAO PAULO
StonewallBrazilian Foruns already give 99,99999999999999999999999% certainty , Rafale M. F1 to the Navy 😎
StonewallBrazil just ordered Rafales for the air force …
and M1s already retired from French Navy are very likely to go to the Brazilian Navy also
forget the A-4s 😎
RAFALE in the Foch (now the São Paulo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drus7ANMpcY&feature=player_embedded
StonewallInteresting presentation
(In Portuguese)
the underwater guardians of the Brazilian Coast
http://www.estadao.com.br/especiais/os-guardioes-submersos-da-costa-brasileira,70378.htm
Stonewallnuclear powered subs are only interesting if you are planning global operations and you will need far more than a single one. imho this will end in a big white elephant and nobody can guarantee that this local build sub is quite enough or fully functional if it touchs the water.
imho they should spend the money into more ssk’s (with aip etc.) and a modern surface fleet. btw did they order aaw-ships so far?
not yet. FREMMs are a possibility but so far the type is not chosen.
on the other hand, the Scorpenes are moving ahead. Sarkozy is expected in Brazil next monday (National Holiday) to sign the contracts.
Stonewall India Struggles to Keep Navy Afloat
Siddharth Srivastava | Bio | 01 Sep 2009
World Politics Review
NEW DELHI — India’s defense procurement and modernization processes are infamously slow, and mired in red tape, corruption, and lack of long-term strategic planning. One prominent result has been the country’s unsuccessful quest to either procure aircraft carriers internationally or build them at home.
The delays have forced India to refit its sole aircraft carrier — the 50-year-old INS Viraat, which according to earlier plans should have been junked by now — to operate for five more years, by which time India hopes to have procured more.
The irony is that, over time, Viraat’s air fleet has also been substantially depleted due to accidents, which makes the ship essentially a “toothless tiger,” as an anonymous army official was recently quoted as saying. In the 1980s, the Indian navy inducted roughly 30 British Sea Harriers for the 28,000-ton Viraat. More than half have been lost to crashes, with the latest going down in August in Goa, killing the pilot and resulting in the grounding of the jets pending an inquiry.
Viraat, a Centaur-class aircraft carrier, was originally commissioned in the British Royal Navy as HMS Hermes in 1959. The Indian navy acquired the platform in 1987.
Sources say that the vessel’s 18-month refitting schedule would probably have taken even more time had it not been for the November Mumbai terror attacks, in which militants used a sea route from Pakistan. Since the 40,000-ton carrier being built at Cochin Shipyard will not be ready before 2015-2016 due to years of political and bureaucratic indifference, the need to keep Viraat operational became more urgent.
Despite India’s efforts to hasten the procurement of the refurbished 44,570-ton Admiral Gorshkov from Russia, that ship — currently undergoing a refit at the Sevmash Shipyard in North Russia — will only be available by 2013, assuming existing differences are sorted out. India and Russia have yet to work out the final cost of the Gorshkov’s refit, with Moscow wanting nearly $3 billion, while India hopes to spend a little more than $2 billion.
Indian navy commanders have long tried to impress the political leadership about India’s need for at least three aircraft carriers to secure strategic interests that stretch from Africa’s eastern coast to the Malacca Strait, in order to assure that two remain active — one each for the eastern and western seaboards — even if the third must be refitted and upgraded.
A growing rivalry has emerged between India and China to control the waters of the Indian Ocean. China has spoken of developing three ocean-going fleets, to patrol the areas of Japan and Korea, the western Pacific, and the Malacca Strait and Indian Ocean region.
On paper, at least, manning the seas is a crucial element in India’s ongoing defense modernization exercise, estimated at over $100 billion. The Indian Navy is looking to produce at least 25 submarines valued at $20 billion to meet challenges across the Indian Ocean. The government also has plans to invest more than $15 billion over the next 10 years on warships.
There has been some progress as well, especially in efforts to meet heightened threats from Pakistan and to balance the advanced military capabilities of China. The Associated Chambers of Commerce and Industry of India has reported that over the three years from 2004-7, India has spent $10.5 billion on military imports, making it one of the largest arms importers in the developing world.
India launched its first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine, the INS Arihant, for trials in July. Part of a $3 billion plan to build five such submarines, the Arihant would complete the triad of nuclear launch capability from air, land and sea platforms. The project, conceptualized in the late 1970s, is already long-delayed. Built under the Advanced Technology Vessel project with Russian help, Arihant is expected to be commissioned around 2012, making India the sixth country — after the U.S., Russia, China, France and Britain — to possess a nuclear-powered submarine.
Meanwhile, the construction of the highly advanced Scorpene submarine is progressing at the upgraded Mazgon Dock in Mumbai, under a $3.5 billion deal for six such French vessels.
India has also developed a submarine-launched supersonic missile using a modification of the BrahMos cruise missiles, a capability limited so far to advanced nations such as U.S., France and Russia. Ship- and land-launched versions of the BrahMos cruise missiles are also being inducted in the navy and army. The state-controlled Defense Research and Development Organization is also undertaking a joint development project with Israel Aerospace Industries for a surface-to-air missile for use from land and ship.
In early 2007, India purchased the 36-year-old 16,900-ton warship U.S.S. Trenton — re-christened INS Jalashwa — for $50 million. Trenton is the first Indian warship purchased from the U.S., and the second-largest that India now possesses, after the Viraat.
In addition to expanding its naval capabilities, India is also intent on improving its air force. Trials began in August for India’s largest-ever defense deal, the $12 billion contract for 126 medium multirole combat aircraft (MRCA). Lockheed Martin and Boeing (U.S.), Dassault’s Rafale (France), Gripen (Sweden), MiG (Russia) and Eurofighter Typhoon (a consortium of British, German, Italian and Spanish companies) have begun presenting their fighter jets for flight testing by the Indian air force.
The new MRCA fleet will replace the shrinking MiG-21 interceptors, filling the gap between the more powerful Russian Sukhoi-30MKIs and the low-end indigenous Tejas LCA lightweight fighter.
The question of India’s aircraft carriers, however, remains caught in a time warp.
Siddharth Srivastava is a New Delhi-based journalist covering foreign and strategic affairs, security, politics, defense, business and lifestyle issues. He has been a correspondent for the Times of India and is widely published in newspapers and magazines in Asia, Europe and America. His Web site can be found here.
StonewallBrazil will build a nuclear sub in 2016
original in portuguese from
http://congressoemfoco.ig.com.br/noticia.asp?cod_canal=1&cod_publicacao=29509
Auto-translation from google:
27/08/2009 – 14:15
Brazil build nuclear submarine in 2016 Franco-Brazilian
Renata Camargo
Defense Minister Nelson Jobim announced on Thursday (27) that Brazil will begin construction in 2016 the first nuclear-powered submarine of the country with French and Brazilian technology. In a public hearing on the Foreign Relations Committee of the Senate, to discuss the need to re-equip the armed forces, Defense Minister said that by 2021 Brazil will have four conventional submarines and a nuclear power.
“With the submarine deterrent enter the club of countries that have the ability to design, build and operate nuclear submarine. But we will not have nuclear missiles, because we are not a country of imperialist intentions. We are a country’s intention to protect our wealth, “argued Jobim.
On September 7, President Lula and French President Nicolas Sarcozy, symbolically sign the agreement for the construction of submarines. Minister Jobim justifies the choice of France as a partner was due to the fact that it is the only nation to have offered a partnership in technology transfer to Brazil.
“Russia, Britain, the United States and India, no one accepted transfer technology. Only France has accepted. With this agreement, we have radical technology investments and involvement of domestic companies. We are buyers of the shelf. Brazil is a partner, “he explained.
President Lula sent yesterday (26) to the Senate request for a credit facility for investment for the construction of submarines. The Senate must pass the equivalent of 598.2 million euros in credits, which corresponds to the part that the Brazilian government will invest in the program. According to Jobim, France will invest 4.3 billion euros for the construction of submarines. In total, the project will cost 6.69 billion euros.
Partnership
For the construction of the nuclear submarine, France would transfer technology not only nuclear. The engines will be built plants in Brazil because the country already has this technology. Besides the nuclear submarine, which has advantages of mobility and displacement, Brazil will build on the agreement with France four conventional submarines.
The submarines have a diesel propulsion with energy stored in batteries. The speed is 4 to 6 knots (7.4 to 11.2 km / h). Besides being considered shallow water, to attain the depth of 50 to 500, they need to surface every 12 hours. These submarines are beginning to be built in 2011.
As shown Jobim, nuclear submarines are capable of displacement and submergence far superior to conventional submarines. By having nuclear propulsion, powered by nuclear reactors, these submarines are capable of more than 100 and 6-speed 35 knots (11.2 to 65.5 km / h). The immersion of submarine is indefinite, it does not need to submerge check.
In 1983, Brazil signed an agreement with Germany to build submarines. The agreement, however, did not provide for transfer of technology and construction of the submarines had the participation of Brazilian technicians. “There was no transfer of technological knowledge. The submarines were built only by Germans and adjustments are also made by German technicians. Not learn to build submarines, “explained Jobim.
Besides the construction of submarines, the defense strategy of the Navy includes the creation of coastal defense battalions, the base building and yard for submarines in Itajai (RJ), the Amazon project Segura, to ensure the safety of water resources in the Amazon, and increment of satellite monitoring of constitutional areas, including marine areas and basements Brazilian maritime jurisdiction.
Stonewallfor sure Brazil will not operate A-4s for much longer 😉
StonewallThe Superhornet is a considerably larger and heavier plane than the Rafale. It is almost 4000kg heavier in it’s empty state, and apart from height, is a larger aircraft. It is 3 meters longer, and has an almost 3 meter wider span. Granted, the wings do fold though.
However, could the Sao Paulo’s catapults or elevators actually accomodate them? (the SH’s)
I do know the Rafale conducted trials on board the ex-French carriers. I doubt the Super Hornet would be a good fit….
here a picture, in the then FOCH
StonewallMig-29K for the IN , MAKS 2009
source
http://maks.sukhoi.ru/
StonewallI found this on another forum. Can someone confirm it??? :confused:
Indian Nuclear Sub Running On Empty
August 18, 2009: Last month, India launched its first nuclear
submarine, the INS Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies). This came after
over a decade of planning and construction. But now it’s been revealed
that the Arihant was launched without its nuclear reactor, which will
not be ready for another year, or so. No one is saying for sure when
the reactor will be ready. At that point, Arihant will have to go back
into dry dock, be torn open, and have the reactor installed. Or parts
of it, or just the fuel cores. It’s unclear exactly what state the
Arihants reactor is in. What is known is that the Arihant cannot move
under its own power (as it has none), and apparently is not equipped
with weapons. Other major systems may also be missing. So why was the
Arihant launched at all? Probably because work on the sub had been
going on for more than a decade, and it was becoming embarrassing to
have nothing to show for all that effort.Once the Arihant has a working reactor and weapons systems, it will
undergo up to two years of testing and sea trials before being
accepted for service. The Arihant is based on the Russian Charlie II
sub, which it resembles. A leased Russian Akula II nuclear sub will
basically serve as a training boat for India’s new nuclear submarine
force. Russia retired all its Charlie class subs in the early 1990s.
India leased one from 1988-91, and gained a great deal of familiarity
with it. The Charlie class had eight launch tubes, outside the
pressure hull, for anti-ship missiles. The Arihant has vertical launch
tubes, apparently large enough for the cruise missiles, but not any
SLBM (Sea Launched Ballistic Missile) India has (like the Sagarika,
which is too long to fit in a vertical silo on the Arihant.) Actually,
the exact purpose of vertical launch tubes on the Arihant is unclear.
The navy revealed very little detail on the new sub (which, until two
years ago, the government refused to say anything about.) Access by
photographers was restricted.The new Indian SSN was long referred to as the ATV (Advanced
Technology Vessel) class. There are apparently to be five boats in the
class, assuming that the first one works well. The ATV is a 5,000 ton
boat, and comparisons have also been made to the new Chinese 093
(Shang) class, which is a 6,000 ton boat that entered service two
years ago, after more than a decade of construction. That was China’s
second class of SSNs. The first, the Han class, was a disaster.India is trying to learn from Chinas mistakes. That’s one reason the
ATV project has been kept so secret. Another reason for the secrecy
was that so much of the ATV project involved developing a compact,
light water reactor technology that would fit in a submarine. This 85
MW reactor makes the Arihant underpowered by the standards of other
SSNs, and the Indians give the Arihant’s top speed as 55 kilometers an
hour.Once the Arihant class SSN is proven, a modified version can be built
as a SSBN (ballistic missile carrying sub). This was how everyone else
did it, including the Chinese. Get an SSN operational, then modify the
design to include some SLBM launch tubes. But the Arihant already
appears to have vertical launch tubes, but not of sufficient diameter
and length to hold any of the SLBM (sea launched ballistic missiles)
in service.
StonewallSecond nuclear submarine on track’
IANS
Published: August 19, 2009, 23:24
New Delhi: India’s second indigenous nuclear-powered submarine will be ready soon and will take less time from launch to induction than the first one, says a retired Indian Navy officer who was associated with the top secret project since its inception.
“The second one will be ready and will take lesser time,” Vice-Admiral (retd) Mihir K. Roy said.
Roy, who is now 84, was the first head of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) that was launched in 1984 and guided it during its first four years. He has been involved in all the back room negotiations with the then Soviet Union, which assisted in the project. He is now director of think tank Society for Indian Ocean Studies.
Roy said the disintegration of the Soviet Union in 1991 delayed the ATV project, under which India aimed to initially design and construct three nuclear-powered combat submarines within the country.
The first vessel, INS Arihant, was launched into the waters on July 26. When she is inducted into service after three-years of sea trials, India will become only the sixth country in the world after the United States, Russia, Britain, France and China to be capable of designing and constructing nuclear-powered nuclear submarines.
“We were going fast [on the project]. But there was a long delay. Then the USSR fell and there was tremendous social, political and technological changes in the country. All contracts [on the ATV project] were changed,” Roy said.
“In 2004, Russia stabilised and we signed fresh contracts in dollars. Money was a problem for them because they [Russians] were short of dollars,” he added.
The Soviet Union had in 1981 offered to help with the design and construction of a nuclear submarine. In 1988, it had also leased a nuclear submarine, INS Chakra, for five years to enable the Indian Navy, its first batch of officers and sailors, in operating such vessels.
The ATV project was made successful by the partnership of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, the Department of Atomic Energy and other public and private sector undertakings.
The project was conceptualised around the same time as those to produce an indigenous light combat aircraft and a main battle tank. Both these projects have suffered heavy cost and time overruns, making the launch of INS Arihant a “historic milestone” for the Indian Navy.
StonewallNot really all that serious: Go and buy the Charles de Gaulle from France, who would then go and buy two PA2 sequentially to “finance” DCN.
It would be an enticing option… especially if the nuclear submarine cooperation with France ever gets anywhere. Transfer CdG at the end of a fuel cycle (not 2014… around 2021-23?), and replace the French submarine reactors with a number of those (to be) designed for Brazilian nuke subs or a derived reactor design.
CdG with some 25 refurbished zero-set Rafales and in addition to however many Rafales Brazil would buy now would probably make a good match for Brazil’s future carrier ambitions.
there are rumours about building a “classic-propulsion” version of the CDG
StonewallIndia releases $122 mn for Gorshkov modification
16 Aug 2009, 1550 hrs IST, IANS
NEW DELHI: India has cleared an installment of $122 mn to Russia to ensure that the modification work on aircraft carrier Gorshkov, also known as
Vikramaditya, continues till a settlement on the final price is reached.
The payment was sanctioned earlier this month by the government following demands by Rosoboronexport, the sole Russian agency designated for importing or exporting defence equipment, according to India Strategic defence magazine.
India had paid around $600 million initially after an agreement between the two countries in 2004, according to which the old aircraft carrier was gifted as free but India was to pay $974 million to modify and upgrade it in accordance with Indian Navy’s specifications.
In 2007, however, the Russians said they had made a mistake in their calculations to repair and modify Gorshkov, and demanded another $1.2 billion. Recently, they have added still another $700 million saying that modifications, and then sea trials, would be more expensive than as considered by them earlier.
The total demand by the Russians now touches $2.9 billion, instead of $974 million, or, approximately one billion as originally contracted.
The delivery of the aircraft carrier has also been pushed from 2008 to 2012-13, although repair work on it is continuing without break at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia on its Arctic coast.
The Russian government had extended $250 million to the shipyard in 2008, and now the installment of $122 million being paid by India is also to ensure that there is no break in the repair work, India Strategic quoted sources as saying.
Indian naval officials have been stationed at Sevmash for the past several years to monitor the day-to-day activity and to ensure that the repair and modifications are in line with the Naval Staff Qualitative Requirements (NSQRs), the dispute over the additional monetary demands notwithstanding.
India has naturally been reluctant to meet the post-contract Russian demands, and even the Comptroller General of India (CGI) has described the deal as a mess. But the Navy needs Gorshkov as early as possible as its only existing aircraft carrier, Viraat, is on life extension and undergoing a refit to serve for another few years.
It takes nearly 8 to 10 years to acquire an aircraft carrier. Procedures within the Indian bureaucratic system require two to three years, and then a company which is ordered to build it, should take another 5 to 8 years.
Although the Indian Navy is already building one of its two aircraft carriers in design consultancy with Italy’s Fincantieri, it has no choice but to go in for Gorshkov in line with its sanctioned three-carrier planning. Ideally though, a country the size of India with 7,500 km of coastline should have at least five aircraft carriers.
A Russian defence delegation was in New Delhi in July but it refused to negotiate lower than its demand for $2.9 billion.
Discussions though will continue.
The government’s Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is reported to have asked the Ministry of Defence to continue the negotiations but has not acceded to the two revised Russian demands.
It may be noted that the Gorshkov deal also involves a related $740 million contract for 16 Mig 29K aircraft. That deal is going smoothly and the first four of these aircraft are likely to arrive at INS Hansa, the Indian Navy training facility in Goa, by year-end.
Ten pilots, initially trained by the US Navy for carrier landing at its Naval Air Station, Pensacola training facility, are now in Russia training on the Mig 29Ks.
Four of these Mig 29Ks are twin-seaters for training and the remaining 12 for routine operational flying.
The Navy will continue to operate the Mig 29Ks from its ground stations as all 16 of them are likely to be in India before the arrival of Gorshkov.
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