Tom_WThere was also supposed to be a very intact lanc which Jim Pearce got involved with some years back but it seems to have been forgotten (probably because the Russians wanted too much for it). The only trouble is that with them wanting so much for these wrecks which would need lots of work to get them to static condition it wouldn’t be financially viable to fork out too much to buy the a/c then fork out even more just to get it into a displayable condition. The prime example is Kermit’s Lanc, if he can’t afford to get his example restored then I can’t see anyone else wanting to try, what with Paul Allen’s troubles of late.
Tom.
Tom_WHi Neilly, I’ve got a cdr with all my pics of both 778 and 693 kicking around here somewhere, made a spare when the lads making the model for IL2 requested pics. If you want to come and have a look at our fuselage (wings are elsewhere) you’re more than welcome otherwise I could easily post it to you. Nice Mossie btw, what will you be taking to the Brooklands show?
Tom
Tom_WOh well you can’t blame me for trying, they were getting a bit carried away though don’t you think? I was a premature april fool because I thought monday was the 1st and tricked myself by putting the 1st as the date on all the orders I sent out on monday, the shame 😮
Tom
Tom_WLads, lads lads… eh calllllllllm down (in me best scouse accent) they were both very important aircraft to the war effort and both had important parts to play. The point most of you are missing is that we will see a Mossie fly in future years but I think that for the sake of swapping one mossie, when we already have NUMEROUS statics in the country anyway, for a POSSIBLY airworthy Tiffie is the deal of the century, especially seeing as it is possibly a car-door version, I can certainly think of a few old boys who would be very pleased to hear of the deal. Now Glynn Powell is making great progress in New Zealand with his efforts to get more Mossies in the air I think we will see a Mossie fly sooner rather than later, you lot moan like hell when we lose a plane to the states but do you hear the Yanks moan when the same happens with their a/c going the opposite way? Most of you related your tales of woe when the subject of Black 6 arose again a while back and I was one too, but she (in most of your eyes) “has no significance flying in these skies” with certain individuals’ comments about the Mossie having no relevance flying in US skies I think you need to look at what is/will soon be flying over here, YAK 1 people, come on. I admit I am slightly saddened to hear of the sale but I was even more gutted to hear of Tim Moore’s Beau being put up for sale as she’s a much rarer beast and I get a strong feeling that she will disappear over the pond so to speak but as long as it gets treated well I’m not quite so worried.
Tom (I’m on Snapper’s side and proud of it)
Tom_WI’m not sure about a P-38 being part of the deal after the grief the last one caused, though I would love to see one on the European circuit again 🙂 I’d go for an F3F to complete the set so to speak or maybe an Allison engined Mustang though I’m surprised to hear of another American, other than Kermit, who would show such an interest in a British bomber, the only likely candidates I can think of are either Paul Allen or Tom Friedkin though the latter doesn’t usually go for bombers as much and the former seems to have curtailed his buying somewhat recently, hmmmmm interesting.
Tom.
Tom_WThe French did rather well with them both in the Battle of France and when using them over their African/Middle Eastern states, though not as well as the Finns who seemed to get the best from any aircraft, Buffalo being the prime example.
Tom
(if you want to read some more about the Finnish use of the Hawk 75 try any of the Keskinen/Stenman publications, the Aircraft of the Aces books and the Aviation Elite books both by Osprey, good reads)
Tom_WI did hear a while back that Steven Grey had sent his P-36 ‘west’ for rebuild so we might be seeing one sooner rather than later 🙂 As for the P-35 Kermit might eventually finish his to taxiing condition or maybe even as a flyer, let’s hope eh?
Tom
Tom_WThanks for posting those piccies Ian, very nice to see such rare shots, never even seen a pic of an early ‘OU-‘ coded spit so it was very well appreciated.
Tom
Tom_WOOPS, sorry Ian, totally forgot to re-email you regarding the logbook etc as my inbox got well and truly filled last time you tried sending them and then I think you were off on your travels so we missed each other so to speak. I’d love to see the logbook and anything else relating to 53 OTU you have as I’m trying to piece together some history from ‘213’s past and the part where 53 OTU is concerned is quite lacking in any content thus far so any assistance would be greatly appreciated 😉 BTW are you interested if I tell you that ‘213 has a wingtip from an EN— serialled Spit/Seafire?
Tom
Tom_WWAHEY! nice one there Mr Snapper, some cracking shots, the one with the boss flying her made me grin too 😉 It’s really nice to see pics of her in service. So far as it goes I know that she was built by Westlands in mid ’41 and entered service with 57 OTU shortly afterwards, going on until having a cat C accident and then being transferred to 53 OTU after repairs were carried out (probably where the wings were changed). I’m in the process of reading Buerling’s book ‘Malta Spitfire pilot’, he was trained by Lacey among other instructors at 57 OTU during 213’s time there so it’s quite likely that she ‘bounced’ the young ‘Screwball’. Postwar the machine changed ownership when Allen Wheeler bought her and later on donated it to what is now known as The Shuttleworth Trust. She languished there for a few years before Hamish Mahaddie got together as many spits as possible for the forthcoming production of ‘The Battle of Britain’ as all of us know from Robert’s excellent show he did for us in the new year. After Simpson Aero Services had finished the major work needed to get her airworthy she sported a 4 bladed prop complete with Merlin 35 and it is rumoured that they also fitted the later-style windscreen which is currently off the airframe while the rebuild takes place. As soon as production had ceased the aircraft was owned by the film company and then passed on to The Hon Patrick Lindsay who owned her until ownership once again changed when Victor Gauntlett, then chairman of Aston Martin, bought her. Victor sold her to Sheringham Avaition a few years ago and it is under their instruction that we at PPS are rebuilding her to MKI status. Just thought I’d fill everyone who doesn’t know her history in on it as I know that Mark (AKA Snapper) was asking.
(chuffed) Tom 😀
Tom_WI spoke to our CAA rep recently and it transpires that the reason why they cannot permit a Bucc, Lightning or anything else like this is that they have no backup in the case of in flight failure of the control system which is understandable in built up areas like we get in this country. They do try their best (sometimes) and have made ****-ups in the past which is why they are so pernickety about things now.
Tom
Tom_WYEEEEHAAAAAAA! Thanks mate, they are some truly superb piccies, I’ll be gawping at them for a long time this evening I can tell you. I can already see one which looks very much like it has the nose of ‘213 in it (spitfires at dispersals, the spit with the three rings on the spinner but with covers on the cowl 🙁 As for the reason behind my interest in 57 OTU is that what with working on AR213 I’m looking into the history of the old girl a bit more as little is known about her service life after Lacey’s exploits, and there is little extant of her time with 53 OTU later on in the war after a minor prang which, I think, necessitated a double wing change seeing as she now has a MKI wing and a MKII wing, not to mention aelerons from a MKV which was sent to Russia and was never heard of again! Thankyou once again bud, I’ll buy you a beer or two next time we meet up 😉
Tom
P.S. they are a brilliant birthday pressie, sorry I couldn’t post earlier only I was forcing cake down me neck last night, you know how it is, can’t let it go to waste 😉
Tom_WI think it’s an early MKVa because of the date and circumstances but there’s so little difference between a MKIIa and Va that without being able to see the serial we will only be able to speculate on the possibilities until we get a break so to speak, though we have narrowed it down somewhat I think, well done for all the research so far old boy!
Tom 😉
Tom_WEh up Paul. I wasn’t sure about the crop situation until I showed my dad the pic and we worked out that it could be any time from late may until sometime in July as the season for drilling-harvesting was much later than nowadays so it’s more than likely that it’s one of the three A/C you’ve narrowed it down to. I’m still unsure as to whether there is in fact damage to this a/c as I’ve had a good look at the cockpit area zoomed in and it looks like the canopy is damaged, look at the area of it behind the feller with his hand in the cockpit, looks cracked to me. Now add this to the missing armoured glass and it might be that the cockpit was damaged, albeit from the other side. I’d like to think that we have Kayll’s spit here but we could do with a pic or two more of 54 sqn a/c of the period really.
Tom 😉
Tom_WHi Garry, yes this is one and the same a/c, they hoped to have it ready for WoW but the engine which was being restored in Romania took about 6 months longer to finish than was thought, looks like a mean wee beastie 😀
Tom 😉
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