Steve TouchdownBulgaria want to upgrade the Mi-17 and Mi-24 fleet and, for the short-term anyway, there are discussions re-opening regarding the Fulcrums. The argument between the Bulgarian Gov’t and RSK MiG seemed to centre over the difference between “refurbishment” and “upgrade”…a fairly major difference, IMHO! Apparently six were “finshed” by RSK MiG before the Bulgarians said “hey, hang on a minute”….
There’s news on the MiG-29 deal being renegotiated in Russian media sources today again…the Russian PM and his Bulgarian counter-part are having meetings this week, I understand.
The long-term ambition is to buy “Western equipment” for the Air Force: I’d say that Gripen was a very strong possibility given the MoU that was signed.
Best regards
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownArt/PII,
there was more to the Bolivian T-Birds than that: off the top of my head two crashed. They got most back but I believe the problem with the last couple were about the US giving them permission to overfly the States back to Bolivia post-9/11. You’re also right about this “intellectual property” BS being a factor too.
If you Google “Kelowna”, “T-33” and “Flightcraft” all together there are quite a few stories, the best ones in Spanish via Bolivian sources.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
p.s. certainly miss the good ol’ T-Bird: I’m old enough to remember French, Belgian and Canadian ones all being in service in Europe. Missed the Greek ones still being operational, but there are still quite literally dozens around out there.
Steve TouchdownOh my. Anything that praises the IAF is hardly objective to your eyes. RIght?
The Times, ie link in question, is an American news outlet not an Indian one.
The actual source of the “story” is
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm
Here’s another story from the same output that day…probably by the same journo
A missive from the North Pole confides that Santa’s elves are working on a “hot dozen” list of toy favorites, compiled by Toys Wishes magazine, which includes Barbie as Princess and Pauper, Bella Dancerella, Bratz dolls, Cabbage Patch Kids, Elmo and Tamagotchi Connection virtual pets and Nitro BattleRZ cars along with Balloon Lagoon, InteracTV, Ms. PAC-Man TV, Videonow Color and VTech V.SMILE games.
Notice no mention of IAF M2K-5 or PAF F-16 Block 52s anywhere in the list :diablo:
Steve TouchdownAny IN people kicking any Harrier tires recently or checking out the Vincy? 😀
Actually, Victor, I have heard that…but not from any sources at this end…
My memory obviously isn’t too bad today…it was Kyrgyzstan from whence Mongols came…
India admits it bought used MiG-21 jets
NEW DELHI: India on Thursday admitted it had purchased used or
decommissioned trainer versions of the Russian-made MiG-21 jet to meet
“urgent training requirements” of the air force.In a written reply in the Lok Sabha, Defence Minister George Fernandes
said one of the used trainer aircraft — bought from Kyrgyzstan and
last overhauled by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in March 1999 —
had crashed in Srinagar recently.He, however, said India had not purchased any used or decommissioned
fighter versions of the MiG-21 aircraft.“Second-hand MiG-21 trainers have been purchased to meet the urgent
training requirements. Nineteen second-hand MiG-21 trainers were
procured from Kyrgyzstan and eight from Ukraine,” he said.The used trainers, like the other ageing MiG-21 jets of the Indian Air
Force, have been under a cloud following a string of crashes.Fernandes said the used jets were purchased as “new MiG-21 trainer
aircraft are not available in the global market, being out of
production”.“The cost of a second-hand MiG-21 trainer is approximately Rs.25
million and the cost of a new fighter aircraft in the air superiority
class is approximately Rs.1.9 billion,” he said.
Steve Touchdownbewildering! Pak seems to the sink for the most diverse collection of used gear.
sounds like they are husbanding scarce funds for new purchases. the situation cant be too good if crated Libyan spares are purchased in preference to french made ones.
It’s just the way of the world: keep your eyes open for a big Russian aircraft carrier and Sea King helicopters coming to an Indian shipyard sometime soon. I also heard the Indian AF were at Coltishall kicking the tyres of RAF Jaguars recently.
Where did those MiG-21UMs that the IAF inducted in the past couple of years come from again? Kyrgyzstan wasn’t it? :rolleyes:
Ooops…almost forgot the Ukrainian Floggers too:
Ukraine Completes Refitting of Indian Fighter Jets
Excerpt from report by Ukrainian Defense-Express web site on 18 August
Three out of six Mig-23 warplanes, which were repaired at the Defence
Ministry’s Chuhuyiv aviation repair plant, have been sent to India, a
source at the plant told Defense Express. The source said that an
An-124 transport jet took the warplanes to India where they would be
assembled and pass test flights.Defense Express reported earlier that the Chuhuyiv plant in October
2002 signed a contract to refit six Mig-23MF planes which were
decommissioned by the [Ukrainian] Defence Ministry and were to be
supplied to the Indian Air Force. These Migs are better equipped than
similar warplanes built in India.The plant completed the refitting of six Mig-23UB planes, which was
commissioned by the Indian Air Force. All the planes passed test
flights after the refitting, and in early 2004 the plant was ready to
sent them to India.A source at the Ukrainian aviation industry told Defense Express that
India was not happy about how long it took the Chuhuyiv plant to fulfil
the contract. The plant said that the delay was due to an agreement
with a state intermediary having been signed later that the contract
proper.
Steve Touchdownwhats this come under ?
http://islamabad.usembassy.gov/wwwh04052901.html
Islamabad – May 29, 2004: The United States Government has just delivered three HUEY II helicopters to Pakistan for use by the Pakistani Ministry of Interior Air Wing.
These aircraft will supplement the 5 HUEY II helicopters and three fixed-wing aircraft already supplied by the State Department’s Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs (INL) as part of a $73 million border security program.
The aircraft will be used to support border security, counter narcotics and related operations on the western border. They are a symbol of the ongoing close cooperation between the Government of Pakistan and the United States on these important issues.
These are the Huey IIs that people seem to want to insist be added to the PAF/PA inventory. They belong to the US Dept. of State and are operated by civilian (DynCorp employees, at the moment) alongside the Pakistan Ministry of Interior. The Huey in PLA’s pic is no doubt from this batch of three.
The fixed-wing aircraft are Cessna 208B Grand Caravan IIs fitted with FLIR etc.
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownI beg to differ Steve. The exhaust looks like a single-engined Huey to me, with the extension upwards to counter the helo’s IR signature. A UH-1H/Huey II if you ask me.
You’re right to differ, but please don’t beg, Art…it’s so unbecoming 😀
I just checked a couple of shots I have on file and your ID is the correct one. I think it was that IR-suppression mod that threw me.
It must be one of the “second batch” of Huey IIs delivered as ’33’ doesn’t correspond to anything at all amongst the first five sent there.
Well-spotted, Arthur 🙂
Steve Touchdown😀 Indeed I am, and its due to scramble I have a very full email inbox now! 😀
So we just cannabilised 12 AH-1Fs instead of putting them into service!?
I meant the monthly magazine, actually!
I honestly don’t know anymore about the “other” 12 than the fact that it was posted a few weeks back on Pakdef (it’s mentioned earlier in this thread too).
I’ve never seen any US documentation for the Cobras collected and shipped directly to the end-user: Israel have taken plenty, and Jordan and Bahrain have helped themselves to a few too, I believe.
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownAnyone able to id this chopper?
Looks like one of the new Bell 412EPs to me, PLA…nice find.
Interesting similarity in paint scheme to some of the US Department of State’s Aviation Wing choppers…including the Huey IIs at Quetta…
Steve TouchdownWhich is not the same as a company to government arms sale… which would be the case if it was a non-FMS deal directly with Lockheed. And with a government-to-government deal, the snippets Steve digs out from the Washington catacombs are the thing to go by.
Which is getting harder and harder the more they block his IP address! 😮 😮
Don’t you even dare say that my reputation must proceed me :diablo:
Steve Touchdown“government to government arms sales,” was the term used in the article Arthur…
….which would include an MLU update for the existing fleet and selling Pakistan half a dozen Mk.82s…which is Arthur’s point! :diablo:
I don’t mean to be cynical…I just don’t believe anything until I see it finalised… :p
Steve TouchdownSo, the 412EPs are only a 2 year lease?
So the PDF says, as did Bell-Textron, Victor.
The PDF is worth a read as it also confirms funding by the US DoD.
Of course, it’s not to say that they can’t be purchased at a later date…
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownWow! Steve, I have said it once and I will say it again! Your a GOLDMINE of info! I thought the order was for 40 not 28 though……!?
Ahh but you’d have known this for weeks if you were a ‘Scramble’ subscriber, PAF Fan 😀
Agreed: 40 airframes were definitely finalised for transfer under EDA…which tends to support the info that Usman got about 12 being transferred directly to Pakistan for spares/cannibalisation….there’s no US-sourced record of those as they fall outside of the remit of the contract that DynCorp have to refurb the 20 that will be fliers.
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownA quick update on a couple of Pakistan’s other procurement programmes:
The 20 AH-1F for refurbishment/supply to Pakistan are as follows:
83-24198
83-24199
83-24196
83-24190
82-24074
82-24072
82-24071
82-24069
82-24067
82-24066
82-24065
81-23537
81-23527
81-23526
80-23519
80-23521
80-23516
79-23239
79-23228
82-24073
All will have various upgrades, including C-NITE, RWR and replacement UHF/VHF radio kit etc.
8 AH-1F parts-donor aircraft for Pakistan programme:
83-24195
81-23530
81-23528
80-23514
79-23229
79-23221
79-23231
79-23248
In theory, these eight should be de-militarized and disposed of once useable parts have been stripped. I doubt they’ll go further than Puerto Rico and, like the Hueys at Ozark, may even get “transferred” to another contract if more FMS/EDA orders for Cobras emerge in future.
All 28 are to be transported from current location (Fort Drum) to DynCorp’s site at Aguadilla in Puerto Rico for refurbishment, via ship from Jacksonville, FL to San Juan, PR. Delivery to Pakistan on completion of the refurbishment should be via two airlift missions. The Cobras were available for collection at Fort Drum from 6th August onwards.
Also, regarding the Bell 412EP procurement, please see the attachment to this message which confirms a two year short-term leasing agreement for the 26 choppers. Using the same source there is NO mention anywhere of a notification for Bell 407s….draw your own conclusions. 😉
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownThanks for the heads up stevo!
Whats the major difference between a “sale” and a “transfer”!?
In terms of $ we are getting $300 million in military aid a year (enough for 18 C/Ds!?) from US funds and as your are well aware, our budgeted yearley allowence for new Air Force equipment has not been spent for the past 4 years, our only major new aqquisition for the past 16 years being F-7PGs and surplus Mirages
The talk of the block 50s came from this months AFM qouting ACM of PAF
Assuming that the journo who wrote the piece for Reuters, or his sources for the info, are being specific a “sale” would indicate PAF being granted permission to buy new F-16s from Lockheed-Martin. A “transfer”, which is used more than once in the original, suggests the supply of older F-16s out of AMARC…which could, theroretically, cost Pakistan nothing if granted under terms of Excess Defense Articles. Obviously then refurb and spares/weapons packages all have to be taken into account as add-ons.
Off the top of my head currently receiving Vipers on that basis are Oman, Jordan, Thailand and Italy…although the Italian deal is a more complicated leas agreement, I believe. It’s not to be sniffed at, given the costs involved. Pretty much the same basis and procedure is being used for the 20 AH-1F Cobras that the Pakistan Army are getting.
$300 million would buy nothing like 18 F-16C/Ds on current spec and price: I think the Polish package came to something like $4 billion for 48 jets and seem to remember the UAE are paying something like $80 million per jet including spares and support.
Sure, the PAF ACM would love Block 52+ Vipers for his Air Force: that kind of goes without saying, doesn’t it!
I’ve also seen around $1.3 billion quoted for the Erieye/SAAB package…..all adds up as the MoD/Gov’t over here are only too well aware! :diablo:
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
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