Steve TouchdownWhere do you get your number from? From what I see, the cost per airframe is a way under the 210 million per airframe. Of cause, I dont count the R&D for the plane. Just the cost of procurement.
😮 😮 Ooops…my bad!! Thanks for pointing that out, Skyward…I derived my figure from awful mental arithmetic and misplacing a somewhat important ‘0’!
I tried going back and working out a rough ball-park figure from adding together various notifications of payment as part of the multi-year procurement, but it’s impossible to do that as some funds are already in place against future orders etc.
As you also said, R&D costs can also be factored in. No idea if there is an accurate idea of those costs to-date around at the moment either.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownSomeone thinking you’re talking ballcocks, doesn’t make them anti-American. 😎
Amen to that, GA.
I lived there for a year (Encinitas, CA), have visited 38 of the states and had personal visits around something like 150 different military installations (AFBs, AAFs, NASs etc.) over the past 15 years.
I think it’s a wonderful country and I would be more than happy to visit again next year if my daughter fancies the idea of seeing Disneyworld.
How is disagreeing with the dogmatic and ill-informed opinions of the likes of Sauron “anti-American”? I despised Thatcher and her values so I guess that must make me anti-British by definition.
Hey, I must have been the infamous “enemy within” 😀
Steve TouchdownI guess the credit of the end of the USSR empire is more for Gorbatchev that for Reagan IMHO.
Reagan was smart enough to consider Gorbatchev as a man he could speak with.
Absolutement, Hand! 😉
Seems strange to me that Reagan apparently knew nothing about American foreign policy when it came to the whole Iran/Contra, Oliver North debacle yet apparently he was able to bring about the downfall of the “Evil Empire” single handedly. :rolleyes:
In the Oval Office, Ronald Reagan told Yitzhak Shamir and Simon Wiesenthal, on two separate occasions, that he himself had assisted personally at the liberation of the Nazi death camps.
Scary to think he was once the most powerful man in the World when obviously he was quite barking mad with claims as ridiculous as that!
He’ll be remembered here most of all for the “President’s Brain is Missing” sketches in “Spitting Image” more than anything else, IMHO.
Steve
Steve TouchdownThey prefered “detante”
Who was he…the fifth musketeer!? 😀 😀
Steve TouchdownNothing has been decided yet, and certainly not set in stone!
The strongest mention I’ve seen anywhere was in the NY Times:
Administration officials are also discussing plans to remove some F-15 fighters from Britain and to withdraw the handful of F-15 fighters that are normally deployed in Iceland, though final decisions have not been made.
Bear in mind plans for 600 brand-new military houses to be built at Lakenheath are still being pursued as we speak……
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownWhen in low rate initial production, the cost will be less than $200 million. When it finally goes into high rate production, the costs are projected to drop to around $120-$150 million per plane.
LRIP Lot 5 has just been confirmed for 24 a/c at $492 million, or $210 million per airframe if you prefer.
I haven’t looked around to see what else is NOT included in this price, but the F119 engines certainly aren’t as they were awarded some time previous to the LRIP Lot 5 details (separate contractor, obviously).
I believe Lot 6, ie the next batch, will be full production examples so guess we’ll find out then the cost per ‘frame.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownWhy was it there Flood ? On it’s way to the joint forces excercises off the Scottish coast perchance ?
A godwill visit o mark the centenary of the “Entente Cordiale”, Ren Frew:
“Over 1,600 French sailors will hit the streets of Portsmouth during June 7-10 when the 40,000-ton aircraft carrier FS Charles de Gaulle anchors in the Solent on a visit to mark the centenary of the special Anglo-French alliance and friendship known as the Entente Cordiale.
The Charles de Gaulle is France’s premier warship and her visit emphasises the importance with which the 100-year friendship between the two nations and the two navies is viewed by both countries.
Before the carrier anchors off Stokes Bay, Gosport, at 8.30 am on June 7, she will fire a 21-gun salute, which will be returned from shore at Fort Blockhouse. Among the highlights of the visit will be a fly-past by the Patrouille de France – the French equivalent of the Red Arrows – over the Solent at about 6.30 pm on June 9. That evening there will be a cocktail party on board for 600 invited guests who will be ferried to the carrier by boats from Portsmouth Naval Base.
A 65-strong French Army band is being flown in specially to play for the guests at the cocktail party and as they wait to be embarked in the boats. It will also play at a public place in Portsmouth yet to be decided.
The Charles de Gaulle, under the command of Captain Xavier Magne, was commissioned in May, 2001. Like US aircraft carriers she is nuclear powered. She has the capacity to carry a mixed air group of up to 40 aircraft including Super Etendard strike fighters, E2C Hawkeye airborne early warning aircraft, Rafale F1 fighters, and a mixture of AS 565 Panther, AS 322 Cougar and Super Frelon helicopters, plus Dauphin search and rescue helicopters”.
(Credit: posting by Dave S. on Touchdown-News, June 3rd)
And to think the Royal Navy used to have ships like that. Today we’re lucky if they can muster up a flotilla of rowing boats.
Sadly true, EN: the tragic result of a nation run by bean-counters and a long succession of tax-cutting Tory budgets. 😀
I counted at least ten Super Etendards on deck – anyone see anything else around?
The first report I saw mentioned 11 Super Etendards plus two AS.565MA Panther choppers aboard, Flood. No real news since then although 10 Super Etendard serials were reported last night.
Best regards
Steve
p.s. rumours of a visit to Stokes Bay (same location as the CdG in Flood’s great pics) of the USS Enterprise from June 18th have been strongly denied today.
Steve TouchdownWolverine
I dont think its just 13 choppers mate.Pakistan recent helicopter aqquisition list looks like this
12 MI-17 deilvered in 1995 plus 13 more ordered now
10 Huey 2s
40 UH-1s on order
40 AH-1s on order
30 Bell 412s on order
PAF Fan,
just to (very briefly) update and inform on what I’ve picked-up on recently concerning the above:
the Huey IIs are US Department of State-owned: another three (to add to the original five) have just been delivered and two more are expected in November. I also saw a mention of a total of ’15’ as a requirement but concrete plans only suggest a total of 10 will be supplied at this moment….
No progress seen or heard of on the AH-1/UH-1 EDA deals as recently as two weeks ago.
Bell 412s: certainly in the process of being built right now at Mirabel in Canada, and came right out of the blue for me. However, I’ve heard the total ordered is “around a dozen” so would be interested to hear where the figure of 30 came from. IDs for these should be fairly easy to obtain in due course as they will all receice civil Canadian registrations at some point I should think…
I have no idea what’s happened to the planned and congressionally-approved purchase of Bell 407 choppers though. Around 50+ of these were originally sought by the Pakistan Gov’t.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownThe RHAF RT-33A’s were used initially by 335 Mira from Eleusis and later by 348 Flight (Sminos) which operated from 1953 with 6 modified F-84-G’s before moving to Larissa in 1954 were it acquired 335’s Rt-33’s in 1955 and the RF-84F’s in 1956.
Thanks for that, Fantasma and thanks to Arthur also for that list of T-Birds for me to cross-check! 😀
Almost there with the RT-33A and T-33A(N) batches, but just wanted to confirm a couple of minor, but crucial, details with you two guys:
Arthur, which one of the twenty RT-33A identities DOESN’T appear in the list of nineteen that you have? Unfortunately, I only have confirmed delivery dates for eighteen of them, a notification summary that nineteen were supplied and possible identities of twenty different RT-33As! 😮
Fantasma, have you got a source please for the possible inclusion of the Canadair-built T-33A(N) in your second list 21518 (listed as 52-1518)? From three different sources I’ve come up with a list of 22 (ie those shown in Arthur’s posting) but haven’t seen a mention of 21518 elsewhere. That’s not to say it’s incorrect as it may be new information for me to follow-up.
Thanks again, Guys, for help so far and also in advance of your replies.
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownGreat stuff, Fantasma…thanks for those additions and, please, post as many of those wonderful period photos as you can find! 🙂 🙂
I have MAP confirmation of those RT-33A-1-LO deliveries all taking place between February and June 1955, but I’ve still yet to find details of their eventual disposition. I have one of them still in Greece as late as 1972 but, as you said, I’m certain the vast majority were disposed of by transfer. Turkey were receiving their RT-33As at the same time as the HAF, and likewise replaced them with the RF-84F around 1957, and I know nine of theirs were transferred to the Italian AF. I have virtually no confirmed sightings of RT-33As in Greece, so they must almost all have been passed-on to another (NATO?) country.
While you were looking around did it mention any unit as having taken delivery of the RT-33A? I suspect some, if not all, went to 335 Mira maybe.
One thing from the original list that came via P.Anastasiou’s site that is in error are the 52-1xxx serialled aircraft. These were all Canadair-built T-33A(N) models and were never allocated US serials: the HAF serials will have been 21xxx etc. with the last three digits derived from the aircraft’s build/construction number. Three of these still survive in Greece, that I know of: at Sedes, Tanagra and Souda.
Thanks again and I’d be more than interested in seeing anything else you find on these great Old Ladies.
Cheers
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownYou gonna be at Volkel in two weeks’ time, Art?
I’ll be there, but on the Friday, as we’re doing Avord on the Saturday and Lorient – Lann Bihoue on the Sunday.
Be good to finally catch-up with you (maybe at the Scramble stall or somewhere convenient) and have a chat over some frites and a beer 😀
Cheers
Steve
Steve TouchdownPerhaps lame stories such as this one are necessary to conger
Would that be the large eel or is it a typo for that fantastic dance performed in a line-astern fashion at drunken gatherings? 😀
Steve TouchdownSomething that’s puzzled me for quite a while now, Art, is why the majority of (military, at least) spotters over here use ‘scopes/poles yet our Dutch colleagues favour bins or those really odd-looking monoculars that I’ve never even seen for sale here! What do you think?!
I do own a pair of bins (Pentax 8 x 40s) but, same as with Sauron, I only ever get those out to go walking and birding with. For “expeditionary spotting” (great phrase!) I use a Kowa 32×80 ‘scope. When I first started using it in early ’98 there weren’t many spotters taking optics that seriously, but now there are a whole lot of folk using Swarovski, Leica, Kowa and Opticron ‘scopes on trips. Not sure that, at £1,000 plus for the APO models, you get that much more performance from them over something 1/3rd the price though!
Cheers
Steve
Steve TouchdownRead the comments above Arthur – this incident is now being extrapolated to encompass the whole ‘Land of the Free’ sounds like a gross generalisation to me?!
Okay, Steve, I’ll take this at face value.
Let’s forget the ridiculous way the lady was treated, the part of her story and background that most stood out for me was the piece of legislation dragged-up from 1952 which led to her initial arrest.
If “Land of the Free” squares-up with foreign nationals who also happen to be journalists needing to make that be known at any frontier then we have a VERY different view of freedom and the values associated with it.
Steve
Steve TouchdownSteve so your suggesting that the poor, doubtless inexcusable, handling of a dozen journalists at LAX over the course of 2003 equates to proof that the entire US Immigration system is staffed by a draconian bunch of jackbooted fascists?.
You think this is an honest statement do you?.
Funny that I need to explain further to a fellow Brit as intelligent and erudite as yourself, Jonesy, when young Art gets it right away don’t you think? 😀
I guess it’s the case have having been there and bought the t-shirt :p
Art: never been ‘cuffed in the “Good Ole” either…but have spent many a fine hour with some humourless folk from about six different ‘agencies’, including my own personal favourite the OSI. You may have already heard about the heavy-handed and over-zealous security at NAS Lemoore’s Open House back in March (a number of your compatriots were present) which included pages being torn from notebooks in the static and people being told not to look at the ramp full of spanking-new Super Bugs with scopes and bins from the car park ‘cos they “weren’t part of the airshow”.
Steve
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