Aren’t they Hellenic AF RF-4Es and Danish RF-35s?

Never seen a USAF F-4 in Lizard with hi-vis markings on the intake and tail like that before that I remember.

Cheers

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

Hmmm unless………

What do we think?

Originally posted by Phil Foster
Anyway as to the original point of the thread, Geoff Hoon and the MoD have come out and said the media are talking total tosh. Not that we didn’t already know it. Sorry I had a link but I seem to have mislaid it.

Hoon’s denial is mentioned in this piece, Phil, and I also read it in a newspaper today too:

Eurofighter doubts will not save airbase

Concerns over the future of the Eurofighter are unlikely to win a stay of execution for Norfolk’s Jaguar jets and their RAF Coltishall base, it emerged last night.
The Ministry of Defence moved swiftly to deny a national press report that Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon was set to scrap the delayed and increasingly expensive war-plane.

An MoD spokeswoman said a deal for the first 55 of 232 planes was done but conceded that talks were continuing about the next 89, over “capability and affordability”.

The MoD, however, remained “fully committed” to the Typhoon Eurofighter project and, with it, the phasing out of the ageing Jaguar, she added.
Coltishall is expecting to close around 2008-10 when the Typhoon takes over air defence and ground attack roles.

But the aircraft has its opponents, concerned about delays in development and the escalating cost, giving each plane a £50m-£60m price tag.

Shadow defence minister and Mid Norfolk MP Keith Simpson last night said the rumblings about the aircraft were down to political “games” as MoD reviews looked at ways to cut spending, and how best to direct the remaining resources at forces geared to modern warfare, such as new aircraft carriers and planes. “We are talking about cutbacks which could be £1.5bn a year for a few years.

Different parts of the MoD will be leaking stories in a bid to force the Government’s hand by getting denials,” he said.

Mr Simpson felt it was likely there could be a reduction in the number of Typhoons ordered but that Britain was involved in a game of brinkmanship with other European partners – Italy, Germany and Spain – because the first to cut back would incur the biggest penalty costs.

He said the RAF was looking at its operational requirements anyway in reviews that are also casting a cloud over the future of Coltishall’s neigh-bouring radar base at Neatishead.

Coltishall, the only surviving operational Battle of Britain fighter base, was relatively small, and the RAF could decide to close it anyway “with or without the Jaguar”.

“They could hit that area with a double whammy – but I hope the MoD, following pressure from us MPs, feels it has a moral duty to help an area which has been a land-based aircraft carrier, and at risk of attack, since the 1940s,” said Mr Simpson.

Campaigners fighting the closures say a double shutdown could result in a £40m-a-year blow to the local economy, hitting many shops, pubs, businesses and services.

A deputation from North Norfolk is heading to the MoD later this month to put in an 11th-hour plea to save Neatishead, which looks doomed to be ditched in a review favouring switching radar units to operational airbases.

One of those calling for a stay of execution is North Norfolk MP Norman Lamb, who has also recently tabled a number of parliamentary questions asking for technical detail on the Eurofighter project.

Among the questions he has asked – which have yet to be answered – is when the aircraft will be ready for operational use.

Source: Eastern Daily Press (3rd March, 2004)

Regards

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

Did the USA ever offer or instigate an upgrade to the F-5E/F which they were more than happy to sell/lend/give to just about everybody with a runway?

On the same note as Arthur’s post on the evolution of European aircraft, what about the Italians with the MB.339 and SF-260?

Steve

Originally posted by seahawk
You mean those 20 planes Singapore might buy ??

But that is no reason, why all other partners should pay, so that the UK gets a perfect aircraft (for their needs) asap.

C’mon, seahawk, let’s be (overly!?) optimistic for a minute or two. There COULD well be orders for another 120-150 Eurofighters in the next year or two (Greece and Saudi Arabia) so is it not expeditious to integrate as much as possible as the opportunities to do so present themselves?

That’s why I asked if anybody had any idea of costs: Grippen seems to be doing plenty of clearance/integration on weapons now and in the near future. Presumably SAAB/BAE are paying for that between them so the costs can’t be astronomical can they? It would be a pity if another 6 to 12 months was lost due to behind the scenes bickering IMHO.

By the way, is there any hard and fast evidence that you can point me to regarding the wishes of the UK MoD/Treasury please? I’ve certainly seen it mentioned, but only in silly articles like the one from The Sun posted yesterday.

I’m not sure the UK wants a perfect a/c for our needs ASAP: that’s just my feeling on the subject and I can’t say, specifically, that’s what lies behind the delays of Tranche 2 agreements etc. Personally, I’d rather keep the late-built F3 Tornadoes for SEAD and not worry too much about hanging ALARM on Typhoon for another 10/12 years.

Best regards

Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

Please remind us, Dis, what the % of GDP the US spends on defence per annum? And what the national debt is running at right now?

Originally posted by glitter
[B]But you forgot the main point, MAINTENANCE.
Getting ride of several hundreds MIG would save quite a high sum.

Absolutely, Glitter: on just about every operational European MiG-21 base I’ve been on over the years there has always been a hangar stuffed full of Fishbeds in pieces. You have to separate the front and back ends to do anything vaguely major to the engine: that’s certainly the case with MF and bis variants anyhow.

Regards

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

Originally posted by Aurel
Tranche 1 Block 5 (2005):
Iris-T, Mk80 Bombs, Paveway II, GBU 10/16
Tranche 2 Block 5 (2007):
Iris-T digital, AIM-120 C-5, GBU 24, Alarm, Paveway III/IV, Taurus
Tranche 2 Block 15(2009)
Meteor, Storm Shadow, Brimstone

If I’m not wrong, this was the timetable for weapons integration.
Feel free to correct it.
So what the hell needs the RAF more on A2G in tranche 2 ???
It is debatable to integrate AIM-120 C-5, if the Swedish integrate the Meteor at the same time in the Gripen weapons system. Maybe Storm Shadow could be exchanged with Taurus, if the British need them so badly…

It’s partly because of this desire from the MoD/DPA/RAF/whoever that I reckon they’re going all-out to have as much as possible integrated into Tranche 2 that the UK order might end there.

Hey, I’d love to be proved wrong and have the whole 232 order!

Have there been any examples of costs regarding each weapons integration? Surely they can’t be that high as to jeopardise orders?

Regards

Steve