Ja, I didn’t mention any numbers of SH-2G(NZ): the figures I quoted were for the 8 SH-2F aiirframes bought from the US DoD via FMS/EDA.

That figure is 100% correct and I have even been able to track-down the US Navy Bureau Numbers of all 8 SH-2F Seasprites purchased in 1997:

149030 150154 150171 152191 161641 161657 161899 162585

Of those eight, four were accepted as SH-2F as an interim measure whilst awaiting the SH-2G(NZ) deliveries. However, one never flew and was used as a spares source:

NZ3441 ex 161641 in service date: 27th Feb 98 & withdrawn in 2001
NZ3442 ex 162585 in service date: 05th Jun 98 & withdrawn in 2001
NZ3443 ex 150171 in service date: 15th Jul 98 & withdrawn in 2001
(NZ3444) ex 150154: used as a spares source

The fact that 150154 never went into NZ use as an SH-2F and that five SH-2G were eventually ordered is probably linked as it meant that there were five donor airframes with Kaman which were cannabilised to provide the “second hand” parts for the newly constructed airframes.

As for the RAN Seasprites: you may not have known that, in much the same way as New Zealand did, the total amount of airframes procured via the same FMS/EDA process was in fact 15 (14 x SH-2F and 1 x SH-2G) and, again, the US Navy Bureau Numbers support this:

149024 149773 150156 150160 151310 151316 151329 151330 152204 152205 152206 161656 161913 161914 were all SH-2F

163210 was already an SH-2G and became the prototype SH-2G(A)

Of the above 15 SH-2F 151316, 151330, 152204 & 152206 will provide spares for the other 11 aircraft.

I think that the reference in the news item is more to do with “40-year-old” airframes than the fact they are SH-2F models: 7 of the SH-2G(A) that will go into RAN service are more than 40 years old (149024 to 152204) whilst the other four (161656 to 163210) are much more recently built.

Just to complete the whole “Seasprites-to-Oceania” picture, here’s the FMS/EDA approval for the 15 airframes:

Fiscal Year: 1997 – Country: AUSTRALIA – Implementing Agency: Department of the Navy- Type of Transfer: FMS Sales
Model: SH-2F – Congressional Notification Sent: 10th Mar 97 – Quantity Allocated: 14 – Unit Acquisition Value: $2,989,100
Quantity Accepted: 14 – Total Acquisition Value: $41,847,400
Authorized to Supply: 30th May 97 – Quantity Rejected: 0 – Unit Current Value: $662,904
EDA Accepted: 30th June 97 – Total Quantity Delivered: 14 – Total Current Value: $9,280,656 – Delivery Acquisition Value: $41,847,400

Fiscal Year: 1997 – Country: AUSTRALIA – Implementing Agency: Department of the Navy – Type of Transfer: FMS Sales
Model: SH-2G – Congressional Notification Sent: 3rd April 97 – Quantity Allocated: 1 – Unit Acquisition Value: $15,218,722
Quantity Accepted: 1 – Total Acquisition Value: $15,218,722
Authorized to Supply: 30th May 97 – Quantity Rejected: 0 – Unit Current Value: $4,499,563
EDA Accepted: 30th June 97 – Total Quantity Delivered: 1 – Total Current Value: $4,499,563 – Delivery Acquisition Value: $15,218,722

Which shows the RAN got the 14 SH-2F at around $663,000 a piece and the sole SH-2G at $4.5 million.

Hope this all makes sense and that Arthur enjoyed the numbers exercise!!

Cheers

Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

Originally posted by Arthur
One thing i never really learned: Kaman continues to offer Sea Sprites at each and every bidding for a naval helo. Does this mean they can still build new airframes, or would these be heavily updated ex-USN H-2s? If new-built SH-2s are still available, that must make it one of the oldest helo designs still in (some sort of) production.

Funny you should mention those Seasprites, Arthur, as they cropped-up in some US FMS/Excess Defense Articles work I was doing during the week. I knew that the Polish ones were SH-2G models rebuilt from US Navy SH-2F (they use the last four of the BuNo) but this came as a surprise for the New Zealand order:

Fiscal Year: 1996 – Country: NEW ZEALAND – Implementing Agency: Department of the Navy – Type of Transfer: FMS Sales
Model: SH-2F – Congressional Notification Sent: 10/11/95 – Quantity Allocated: 8 – Unit Acquisition Value: $2,989,100
Quantity Accepted: 8 – Total Acquisition Value: $23,912,800
Authorized to Supply: 11/8/95 – Unit Current Value: $662,904 – Accepted: 9/30/96
Total Quantity Delivered: 8 – Total Current Value: $5,303,232 – Delivery Acquisition Value: $23,912,800

So, basically, New Zealand got 8 SH-2F Seasprites for $5.3 million of which some must have then been used as “donor” airframes for the G models which were delivered later (only four SH-2F went into service).

More came to light recently when they damaged one:

New navy helicopters get secondhand parts

Reconditioned, secondhand parts installed in the New Zealand navy’s five new Seasprite helicopters saved the government about $500,000 a machine.

The navy bought the Seasprite SH 2G helicopters new from the Kaman Aerospace factory in America but the factory confirmed last week that some secondhand parts were installed.

The navy originally took delivery of an earlier version of the Seasprite, the SH-2F, when it retired its old and outdated Wasp helicopters. The earlier versions of the Seasprites were used as an interim measure while the brand new SH-2G helicopters were built.

The airframes on the new SH-2G Seasprites were new but the second hand components included the main transmissions (gearboxes) and tail rotor gearboxes, tail rotor blades and some landing gear components.

“The main transmissions and the two tail rotor gearboxes you can overhaul indefinitely,” said Jim Watt from the Kaman factory.

Watt was in charge of the multimillion dollar repairs to one of the New Zealand Seasprites after it landed heavily on the deck of a frigate in Cook Strait during trials in February last year. The cost of the repairs escalated when Kaman engineers removed the plastic wrapping which protected the helicopter as it was shipped to America as deck cargo and found salt water corrosion.

Watt said the airframe was “brand new from the keel up” but it was a decision by New Zealand defense officials to fit some reconditioned parts. “There is substantial cost savings available to any customer,” he said.

New Zealand Defense Force director of communications Warren Inkster said refurbished parts were part of the original contract. He said the main gearboxes were not being made when the original order was lodged and the production line would have had to have been rejigged to make brand new gearboxes which would have been a very expensive option. Instead, gearboxes from the previous model were refurbished and slightly modified.

“The critical term is new condition. That is how the contract is specified and that is what they are“ they are as good as new,” Inkster said. He said during the original planning refurbished air frames were also considered but the decision was made to buy brand new air frames.

Australia is also in the middle of a Seasprite acquisition program, but seven of the 11 machines it has ordered were 40-year-old SH-2F machines, upgraded to SH-2G configuration. The program has been heavily criticized in Australia, but the government said they would have a full life time capability and were virtually new aircraft.

So I guess they are half-new! 😀

Cheers

Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

Antonov An-2 🙁

Originally posted by h177
And the Manufacturer will simply walk away if it is not State owned.

Funnily enough they haven’t…yet. I think Arthurs is talking about the Canadians… who look like they’ll re-choose Merlin again!

Or will it be the US101 😀

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

Re: Swiss Hawks

Originally posted by Jorgo
Do you know if they are selling their Hawks? :confused:

Errrr….yes, they are. They are (all?) being kept in flyable storage at the moment but I’m not sure how vigorously they’re being hawked 😀 around on the open market.

Best regards

Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

So a “couple of years” actually means 15 then? There would be no more choice in two years’ time than there is now.

I’m also not convinced by JSF as an air defence fighter.

It does seem bizarre to me, however, that a pre-requisite for NATO membership is to be able to defend One’s own airspace. Surely a complete re-assessment of the whole NATO structure needs to be made, and smaller countries such as the central European republics could be spared the need for buying and maintaining supersonic combat jets altogether.

Does post 9-11 USA count as the “free world” then? Or should it be re-titled the “not-quite-so-free-as-it-once-was world” in 2003.

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

Thanks Chaps 😀

wouldn’t the Vipers being offered be the old Guard ADFs though? If AMARC-sourced as opposed to the Weelde ones.

Those ADF versions are the Vipers being delivered to the RJAF this year: ex Minnesota ANG (plus one Montana) machines.

Ciao!

Steve

Awww bless their little cotton socks…the Americans are sulking!

U.S. presses conflict over fighter-jet fleet

Stapleton says Swedish lease deal for aircraft could damage relations

With the government finally ready to make a decision on which fighter jets it will choose to replace its aging air force, intense lobbying by the United States has threatened to throw the process into uncertainty — again.

A Defense Ministry commission recommended Dec. 1 that the government replace its ageing fighter fleet with new Swedish Jas-39 Gripen jets rather than the older F-16 jets offered by the United States, Belgium and the Netherlands. The government has until Dec. 31 to decide which planes will take over for the country’s ageing MiG-21s, but the decision could come as early as Wednesday, Dec. 17.

Heavy pressure and threats by top U.S. officials in the days leading up to the decision have startled the Swedes and put Czech officials in the uncomfortable position of creating strained relations with the United States.

Outgoing U.S. Ambassador Craig Stapleton told Czech Radio Dec. 11 that a failure to award the contract to U.S. aerospace giant Lockheed Martin would affect political and military relations between the two countries and could hurt the Czech Republic’s integration into NATO. Stapleton’s comments were followed by a call from U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell to Prime Minister Vladimir Spidla Dec. 11 to push for the deal, according to Pravo.

Powell reportedly sought an unofficial promise that the country would buy U.S. jets after the 10-year Gripen lease expires — something Spidla has not ruled out. U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz placed a similar call to Defense Minister Miroslav Kostelka.

Lockheed Martin also asked the ministry to reopen the bidding. The company is the U.S. defense industry’s biggest political contributor, according to the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Responsive Politics.

By press time, most government members, including Foreign Minister Cyril Svoboda, still appeared to be in favor of the Gripen jets. Spidla had not tipped his hand.

The heavy pressure put on the Czech government in recent days did not sit well with the Swedes. “I would say I am less surprised than disappointed,” Swedish Ambassador Harand Falth said.

Falth noted Stapleton’s past comments that the fighter tender should be transparent and that the United States would respect the findings of the evaluation committee. “Apparently they changed their minds,” Falth said of the Americans.

He said the Swedish government would stand by the package it presented and let the Czech government decide, on its own, which fighter is the best deal for the country.

“We are not bullying anyone,” he said. “We are not threatening anyone.”

Falth also disputed Stapleton’s assertion in a Prague Post interview last week that the Gripen is not NATO-compatible, a prerequisite for the Czech purchase. The Gripen is used in NATO operations by Sweden and will soon be used by NATO newcomer Hungary. “They are NATO-compatible,” Falth said.

By Kevin Livingston
Staff Writer, The Prague Post
(December 18, 2003)

Stick the shoddy old Vipers in the desert where they belong :p

By the way, how much combat experience do Block 15 Vipers have? Is the KLu air-to-air kill the only one?

Best regards

Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News