5) I reckon the two attempts are about 5,000km off-target so far! 😀

Steve

The Su-25 is not made in Russia.

I thought Ulan-Ude was technically in Russia?

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

I think, this programme is planned to be cheap after RAH-66. That’s why, used concept instead of new concepts like EC-135, MD 900 etc. are favoured.

1) The H-6 shot isn’t a MELB/MH-6M, in case anyone wondered.

2) The Bell 407 is a mock-up.

3) The EC135/635 was still a serious proposal until very recently: a press story gave the reason for withdrawal as a disagreement between EADS and their US partner over “air transportation” issues. I assume they mean it’s connected with the fact that the requirement for ARH is to transport two in a C-130 and have them unloaded and mission-capable within something like 15 minutes. The only stipulation was that the chopper entered for the programme had to already be COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) and already in production.

4) Rumours are that neither meet the required spec at this point in time.

5) Not withstanding point 4 above, apparently it’s already a “done deal”.

Best regards

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

Steve is of course right, they were never ‘thrown out’.

Now tell me Steve, were they invited to remain and continue their activities, or were they invited to leave the country?

Some snippets from mailing lists at the time of the Greek tour arrest:

Oh, forgive me please, Damien. When PaulC mentioned the Romanian incident I was under the impression it was actually a reference to some individuals that were part of an organised tour (by a group whom I’m sure are considered “reputable”) that decided to climb a fence into a compound at Craiova during a visit.

Let’s take your anonymous and out-of-context copy/pastes one at a time, shall I?

1) I believe Bob Archer posted this before he was in receipt of the full facts regarding what actually. If it wasn’t Bob, then I apologise.

I wasn’t personally in Romania at the time so it would be unfair and unwise of me to give a full explanation but, to answer your first question: I believe their press passes for the airshow at Constanta were rescinded.

2) I know for certain was posted by Gavin Mills: I’m actually quite glad you’ve posted this to a publically-accessible forum (rather than a closed list like MSF where it appeared originally). It contains assertions that are completely false: I’ve taken a screen-shot and passed it on for further consideration by parties better qualified than myself.

3) I was part of the group in Poland that were taken into Siemirowice for questioning in April 2001. It was resolved after three or four hours. All of our films were returned to us, although one of the party members was made to erase about 30 seconds of video tape (of an M-28 Bryza climbing on take off from Siemirowice).

I don’t know who wrote the original message, but their remarks are ever-so-slightly wide of the mark: the Polish MoD in Warsaw cleared several of us who had been questioned for further visits in 2001 and permitted full access to all of the Polish bases used in NATO’s “Strong Resolve” exercise a year later (March 2002).

Steve

have heard stories that the same company had a trip to Romania and were caught somewhere they were not supposed to be (ie a HAS after being refused permission to enter the airfield) and rather than cause a diplomatic incident, the Romanians threw them out of the country. The problem with this is that it ruins any chances of future groups being allowed back so genuine enthusiasts/spotters/photographers miss out because of the actions of a few. Have had that on a trip I did a couple of years ago to Russia – one dutch spotter kept wandering off and having to be brought back until the authorities had had enough and the group were told to leave.

Also heard rumours that some of the greek group managed to get the block numbers of some F16’s and you do have to be quite close to see them (esp in a hangar)

Which just goes to show how reliable “rumours” are, Paul: we didn’t even visit an F-16 base :rolleyes:

No group, or any individual spotters, have ever been “thrown out” of Romania either.

Where do you get your information from: Damien’s delusional mate who claimed he knew four of the people on the Greek trip!? :diablo:

Been collecting numbers for 20+ years now, along with photographs, museum visits, getting involved with a ‘hands on’ project etc Aircraft of all shapes & sizes rarely stay with one owner throught their lifetime and having so having relevant information on a particular aircraft history is of value. All pilots are spotters, otherwise why would they record which aircraft they flew 😉 The ability to trace an aircraft’s life history is important.

Agree wholeheartedly, Paul: can’t beat a bit of context, either current or historical, IMHO.

Years of spotting did Paul Jackson and Lindsay Peacock no harm whatsoever: they now co-edit Jane’s “World Air Forces” and constitute half the editorial team of “All the World’s Aircraft”.

For several years any British spotters detained by the Gendarmerie de l’Air in France were asked “do you know this Paul Jackson?” thanks to his 1975 book “French Military Aviation”. 😀

Steve

must admit the last time that I ‘logged’ a serial or reg was over 20 years ago, so probably safe now to class myself as an ‘enthusiast’ rather than ‘spotter’ 😉 ..! bits of the prog were very familiar , for instance the splitting up in to groups so that everythign got logged! 😀 and the characters covered people we’ve all come across sometime – the one who can reel off every serial they’ve ever seen, the bloke who always wants to go a bit further down that track or climb that fence 😮
enjoyed the prog. … Neil.

Reading all of that, Neil, you’re definitely worthy of the ex-spotter title! :diablo:

Several different groups of UK and Dutch guys ended-up sharing a few beers in Bordeaux last year in between two ‘shows down that way. One of the Scottish guys made the point that “if you’ve spent 3 nights in row “chez voiture”, know what an SGT is and who the OSI are, then you’re definitely ‘on the team’ ”

Or there’s always the Polish Mi-2 litmus test that I know Art passes with flying colours 😀

Steve

Nice to see a few stereotypes reinforced

Maybe, Robbo, but stereotypical of whom exactly?

Although all of us here obviously share a common interest in aircraft and aviation, we certainly don’t all share the same hobby/pastime. I’ve been reading and posting on the Key forums for three years now and, so far, Arthur is the only other poster that I know for a fact pursues the same hobby that I do.

Personally speaking I never trust a spotter/number cruncher who choses to describe themselves as an “aviation enthusiast” 😀 Talk about living in denial! :diablo: :p

Best regards

Steve