English translation please 😉 Forum rules.

There is a french expression “Don’t sell the skin of the bear before killing it” which has been transform to “Don’t sell the skin of the bear, no, don’t sell it”.

It”s right that about the Rafale, even a wise man can become impatient. 😮

MIG-35 is more ready than Rafale.

Really ? And do you have something to prove that ?
I dont remind of any Mig-35 doing war operation.

MIG-29K is already exported and there is 10 sets of AESA radar flying in MIGs based on MAKS information. There is no 10 Rafale with AESA.

First, we must believe your Mig-29K = Mig-35. Then, selling planes don’t make him more mature by itself.

nor is anywhere high powered Rafale flying in operational service.

What are you calling “High powered” ?
so, from my point of view, I can ask “Nor is anywhere not overweight Mig-29 flying in operationnal service”.
Or what about tat one “Nor is anywhere Mig-35 flying with a good AESA radar in operationnal service”.

Klimov ….

Stop, we are talking about the “underpowered Rafale” or about the upgrade that you denied existence.
Do you have an answer or not ?

Sukhoi and Embarrer are competitors.

Sure, Embraer has excellence product that can go against Su-35.
:rolleyes:

MIG-35 is the same as MIG-29K. no difference in production line or equipment.

The Mig-35 is not ready, so Mig-29K isn’t neither ?

Rafale will remain underpower jet with limited upgrade potential. Its fate is no different than M2k.

Do you have a link about that problem of thrust ?

Not a about about the new M88-4E ? About the demonstrated faisability of a 9t version ? About future version of AESA, ECM and so on ?

In Brazil it has TOT and offsets offered that Russia refused first with Su-35.

Russia is suppose to be the best for ToT, what are you talking about ?

In India case is more political than technical ability and you will soon find out that it will take more than decade to meet Indian requirements.

Link please.

Now MIG-35 is fully developed after MIG-29K production run. MIG-35 has vast array of new weopons, treated canopy, AESA, TVC, latest OLS, uprated engines and Glonass.
Rafale cant win on technical merits.

Yeah, yeah, but could you prove that ?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mod-$12-billion-fighter-jet-deal/1/1…

We should have a name by today or the following days.

Rafale is underpowerd once you load up with decent load.
Su-30 does not need upgrade as it has decent power but upgraded engines are available unlike Rafale

UAE who tested Rafale seems to think that the thrust of M88 of now is fine (and we are talking of a country with more than 40 deges in summer).

About the upgrade that don’t exist, are you talking of the M88-4e ?
http://www.snecma.com/first-test-flight-of-rafale,2399.html?lang=en

Or the 9t version that doesn’t seem to interest anyone seriously ?
More about it:
http://www.safran-group.com/squelettes/download.php?name=pdf/30-31_Rafale_moteur_FR.pdf

As you know, the 9t but bigger M88-3 has been stopped several years ago.

Being the non engineering type, I always thought this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_AL-31

is a far better reengining idea for the Mirage 2000 than this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snecma_M53

Think they are close enough specs wise? Since India has a huge facility for the former, perhaps my fantasy may come true 😀 The improvement in fuel consumption and performance might be worth it. The M2k would have a better twr than the F-16, combine that with its already awesome wingloading, and we have a big hit. Oh yeah, since we are into fantasy might as well stick the TVC in there as well.

USS

It’s a real art to go for a total different engine.
there is already the question of the size (obviously) where the russian engine seems to have a much bigger diameter.
Then, there is the distribution of weight which can affect the flight of the plane.
and of course, the question of the behavior of the new couple engine/plane in the original flight envelope.

There is very little chance that the Rafale/EF will fit in the stated budget – $ 10.2 billion for 126 units sounds really low.

I asked the question (a long time ago) about who could sell 126 planes + ToT + weapons + many other things for only 10 billions and nobody provided a real answer.

Unless they use the excessively expensive M2k upg deal to subsidize Rafale costs I don’t know how the Ecanards are going to fit the said budget.

On french forums, that sound like something to be considered. Because at first glance, who would spend so much money on old mirage 2000 ?
Knowing that the upgrade is 2.5 billions for the planes themselves and another billion for infrastructure, you are right to assume that a Rafale would have a nice synergy there.

Dunno much about the JSF program, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the JSF came in at a lower tag considering that in terms of volume produced, the JSF will be produced in much greater quantities than the Ecanards and economies of scale should favor the american fighter.

It should the IAF far more capability than the ecanards imho, and IF they can deliver around 2016-17, there is hardly any delay involved.

Here again, you’re certainly right. We must never underestimated the political question.
But you should ask the good question. For India, does it make sense to be a JSF customer, knowing that there will be no ToT.
USA cannot consider India as the “usual customer” for the JSF.