Very thought provoking article, but the prices being quoted, are they accurate ?
Rafale price ? Yes. :diablo:
For F-16 or F-18, they looks like quite low (remember the cost of block 60 to UAE, the block 70 for India sould be quite close).
For Gripen and eurofighter, they look VERY high.
Looks like Thales is having to pay up over the corrupt deal for Lafayette frigates
No, it’s more like me
French Prime Minister Francois Fillon‘s office announced last month that the state would have to cover 72.5 percent of the massive bill the group now faces after an appeal court threw out its challenge to an arbitration panel’s ruling.
Be interesting to see if Taiwan ever fits them out with decent systems now.
After the turmoil around the deal for Mirage, the governement said they won’t do anymore transaction with Taiwan, so I don’t even think they could do it.
Come on guys, nobody spot that one ?
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/07/column-mmrca-right-choice-for-wrong.html
Having flown both the F/A-18 and the Rafale, I can say that while the former would certainly have met all the IAF requirements competently and economically, the breathtaking performance of the latter leaves one in no doubt that it is a generation-next machine. The Eurofighter Typhoon, by all accounts, is equally impressive.
They might reconsider their decision (IMO, they should)
And why ? Unless there is totally differents requirements for the new competition, reflecting a different political strategy for the country, the answer is the same, not a chance in hell for any non american competitors.
South Korea wants to develop its own industry. F-35 offers very little opportunity for that. The Korean experience of co-development with the USA has not been entirely happy, as the Americans have imposed very restrictive conditions. They might hope that Europeans would be more co-operative.
That could make sense. Is SAAB hearing you ?
Is it a coincidence that the mathematical prediction of 840 T/R exactly matches the photos ?
So far so good. But now this, in late 2008 when the start of the LRIP was announced an image of the RBE2AA appeared showing it in a lab. It was the first time that it was possible to count the number of TRMs and the result was something like 838 or so. Given the date it is impossible that this was an LRIP variant as the LRIP was just launched, so it must have been a prototype. In the two images posted above the TRM count is ~840 as well and the latter “onboard” pic was just recently released.
Now the Rafale camp has two explainations:
1.) It is just a prototype with a lower module count
2.) It’s a sanitized picture to hide the true number of TRMs
For you
http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-secteurs/air-defense/dossier/0201438595036/0201452661178-les-espions-ont-rendez-vous-a-paris-cette-semaine-183273.php
Dimensions modifiées, matériaux factices, formes imparfaites : toutes les maquettes exposées sur les stands français, en France comme à l’étranger, sont modifiées si besoin. La DGA s’en assure avant d’autoriser qu’un matériel soit exposé.
And speaking of coincidences: why is it any Rafale representative, when asked on diameter/ nr of modules, -> always changes subject into “size isn’t that important, we got AWAC for scanning, we can use passive, as long as it can get a lock for Mica, etc… ?
Why don’t you ask a Rafale representative about the diameter of the radar ?
but tell him in advance you’ll give him the finger if the answer include “some” or “around”, because that is plain disinformation.
I fear I have very bad news for you about Santa Claus and the Tooth Faerie
2.)What’s the purpose of sanitizing an image to make people believe it has just 840 TRMs when you publicly state it has 1000+?
People with the power to decide which plane to buy have the good answer, that’s the only thing matters for Thales.
Well, for years, I thought the Super Hornet would be the perfect plane for IAF from an operationnal and political point of view.
As we learnt in Korea, you must never underestimate the political question.
So, for me the question is more what was wrong for USA ?
I thought that the last and quick sales of C-130/C-17/P-8 would be a way for India to be closer with USA while keeping free hand for MMRCA, perhaps I’m not too far away from truth ?
But what about the weight of some wikileaks ?
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/22/wikileaks-cables-cause-uproar-in-india-over-nuke-deal-with-us/
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/wikileaks-cables-show-bush-administration-interference-in-india/
and last but not least
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-how-wikilleaks-exposes-americas-double-standards-on-indias-unsc-bid/20101129.htm
Back to the topic: congrats for both competitors, glad to see that Europe quite sure of winning that one.
I don’t think so; AFAIK they have expressed a wish to not submit a response since they believe they cannot win (and I think they are right, this is for the US to win).
Why invite them if they are not interested in participating?
IIRC the A&C article about that, Dassault, after all those efforts in Korea, and since they consider the Japan market as close ask if the market was really open for non american competitors and (of course, because of cultural reasons I suppose) no reply from the japanese side.
How can you objectively say that the Rafale is superior to the Typhoon in the A2A regime because its radar scans quicker, its cockpit screens better laid out and the FCS more satisfying?!
There are no facts, just stories (and i mean no disrespect).
I remind that, not a long time ago, someone (read John Lake) manage to convince many posters about the obvious superiority of Typhoon over Rafale with much less convincing facts than that.
The conclusion is that many people on forums have a better critical sense now :p
I must admit I haven’t followed the MMRCA competition from the very beginning so I wasn’t aware of what was offered.
At first, back in 2002, there was a request from IAF for Mirage 2000, and that’s all.
http://groups.google.com/group/fr.rec.aviation/browse_thread/thread/e9bf0ff3c1075314/d1950a394b74b3a2?lnk=gst&q=glitter+Inde#d1950a394b74b3a2
I am only calling them trolls because their statements are there not for factual purposes, but to provoke an angry reaction.
How can you imagine us to take you seriously with such a signature of yours ?
EDIT: burned by Das Kardinal.
Back in the jet age! 😀
With Typhoon, India gets tech, freedom to act!
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/360-degree/typhoon-india-gets-tech-freedom-act-276
From that link
Moreover, India has already bought the P-8I, the C-130J, it’s buying the C-17, how many more deals do the Americans want?
:confused::confused:
To be honest, if France did buy a carrier they would still be getting the better deal as 40 Rafale would cost hell a lot more than one carrier.
Rafale M = 60 millions of euros (fly away)
How much for a carrier ? More or less than 2.4 billions of euros ?
That is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a long time. The F-35C far exceeds the capabilities of the Super Hornet.
Certainly not for everything and at which cost BTW ?
Plus, the USN already has Super Hornets Squadrons planned to be replaced by f-35C’s. (VFA-14 for example)
In short you have no idea what you are talking about……:rolleyes:[/B]
And you, you read quite badly, nobody said that the F-35C will never be used by USN.
actually, considering the rafale would be a good alternative, but that probably won’t ever happen, even if the F-35 is cancelled, if for any reason, a commercial one:
the british have an aircraft to sell, and buying a direct competitor (even if it’s a specific version that doesn’t exist for the typhoon) would obviously be seen as an excellent selling argument for the rafale, and eventually complicate future typhoon potential exports
Are you sure you’re not mixing the British governement with BAe ?
If Britain did buy Rafale I imagine it would be in return for something else, i.e. France buying a carrier or something.
Sure, we can easily imagine that. I think that RR have some good products and us, lots of problems with logistics.
But a carrier, well, that sound a bit too much.
785 here.
Geeks 😮