I recent huge dept of about $200bil was revealed that was “hidden” under the carpet. Oil is down. Construction companies are firing and stop constructions.

And went from 35 to $70 in few months …

It’s not A&C, they quote Thales. It’s about hardware i think.

It’s obvious the main weakness will certainly lie with the software, the RBE2 AA won’t have as many functions as the APG-79 even if the hardware is able to cope with them.

Yes, it will be significantly cheaper than Gripen due to the very simple fact that even with the most pessimisticit’s production run it will dwarf Gripen in numbers. A far larger production run will result in lower unit costs, and lower upgrade costs and lower maintenance costs. Don’t believe me? Just look at the stink the Germans made when the UK was thinking of dropping out of Eurofighter.

Let’s compare the EF2000 and Rafale.
Twice more Typhoon, still more expensive to buy and don’t speak of upgrade cost that 4 countries can hardly fund.

Anytime you have a production run ten times as great your numbers are going to be lower. Its a simple concept really, its called economies of scale. Maybe you should google it.

Obviously, you don’t have a slight idea of what you’re talking about.
Should USAF required a gripen-like plane, for sure, it would have been 99.9% sure it would be cheaper.
Here, it’s two totally different beast.

On every level, capability, political, economic, F-35 is far superior to Gripen and the rest of the Euro canards.

Could you develloped ?

It is reported that the Eurofighter is offered with a full partnership for India to that project. Wouldn’t such an offer for Rafale be a good idea too?

I must say that I don’t understand the point of a partnership in the EF group so late.

I mean it’s allready offered with full ToT, source codes and Dassault also said that the Kaveri-Snecma engine could be integrated. What more can India get through the EF partnership?

I can’t see what they could get more.
On the other hand, I always had the feeling that this offer of total transfert is a test from the french side.

Also the more parts that could build in India, the cheaper and more interesting the Rafale will be for exports right (Kaveri-Snecma with M88-3 core, instead of Eco core for example, or Astra missiles)?

Wrong, India would built Rafale for IAF only.
They got the proposition of building mirages 2000 for themselves and the rumors said that they would have been responsible of building mirages for any new customer in Asia.

So what do you think, just a dream or possibly a win win situation?

Honnestly ? :dev2:

I believe a “Rafale Discrete” was planned and developed to some degree, AdA just didn’t want to spring for it in actual production… But I think more extensive RAM was a big part of it.

Honnestly, years ago, the Rafale D hasn’t been introduced with many improvement on the RCS area.

Is “Weapons Coffin” an allusion to perhaps a more recessed weapons carriage ala Eurofighter, or something more like Boeing’s Stealth Eagle CFT + Internal Weapon carriage?

I cannot tell you much about that, but for what I understood, it was something around the weapons (and pylons) that would help to prevent the higher radar signature at these place.

For the F-16 E, they asked the introduction of a new kind of radar (AESA), and an IRST for example.
For the Rafale, unless they ask for ANOTHER AESA, they just want upgrades on everything. 😀

The required “more modes” it seems.
I remember when Thales started ot communicate about the AMSAR and the future RBE2 AESA, they said that if the hardware were suppose to be quite close to the american products, on the software side, it was said that for obvious reason, the french AESA couldn’t use every opportunitied offered by such a technology.

More globally, according to some french sources, UAE are requiring too much just to find a reason to not signed anything because of american pressures since they want to “sell UAE more F-16”.
Since even a block-60 cannot compete with the super-rafale described few posts above, I don’t think that argument is solid.

But the cost savings of Mig-35 will not be in the fly away cost or TOT cost , but savings in logistics , infrastructure like BRD , existing maintetance and overhaul facility , weapons commonality , training etc

Mig said “the Mig 35 is a totally different beast than the Mig-29”, so, forget that.
The only advantage would be more so already known procedures which can imply a saving of time for training.

Thats a debatable thing , can any one prove without doubt Rafale is more survivable than MKI or Mig-35 in the same operating environment ?

Honnestly, how can we (someone from that forum) prove that ?
I suppose that the future test in the following months could help to answer that, nothing before that date.

Do you know how much a Rafale costs ? more important how much a Rafale cost with TOT that IAF asked for , how many more billions will be spent to build new Logistics , BRD and Maint facility ?

So, huge save from mig-29 to Mig-35 but nothing from Mirage 2000 to Rafale ? :rolleyes:

Rafale and Eurofighter are really cool fighter but the cost is too high for us to afford in useful numbers not just the flyaway cost but other facilities to build to support , maintain , overhaul it .

An easy reference, the goal of Dassault is a maintenance/hour of flight lower for the Rafale in comparison with the Mirage 2000 for a cost between 10 to 20% higher (with a PESA), so, nothing excessive.

Well am not so sure, Abudhabi, the MONEY BAG of UAE, has rumoured to have lost $200+ Billion in their investment arm. You guys know about the flashy boy Dubai’s financial state.

I think they will take some time, as much as Sarvosky try to scare them of Iran.

I fear that Sarkazy don’t have much to do to afraid them of Iran, Ahmadinejad do it with amazing skills and
– We are talking about a strategic cooperation with the two countries.
– There is talking about nuclear plants too.

And should money be a problem, they wouldn’t ask a Rafale with full options.

In 2004… (for F3)

Yes, for those which are delivered right now.
If you have inflation in mind, the cost would be 56,8 millions
For inflation
http://inflation.free.fr/index.php

And i’m not sure about what’s included in the €3.114Md contract (development of DRAAMA ? etc…)

Well, I tried to find what that contract is supposed to cover, in vain.
Perhaps there is a part for the infrastructure since the F3 is more versatile but I cannot be sure.
I’m nearly sure the DRAAMA isn’t in that envellope, since it was still in r&d at that time.