glitterMirage 2000 – still plenty of potential customers left. India would’ve ordered more. Still viable today
True.
But India refuse to buy it even if incredible proposition from Dassault (full transfert of the production line etc etc).
Any upgrade of the Mirage would be quite expensive, closer and closer to the Rafale range.
glitterWRONG:😀
About roughly 2 hours i would estimate since they CAN do it with AAMs and a supersonic tank attached at M 2.2.
Thunder, pourquoi te ridiculiser sur tout les forums ???
glitter(It’s my 1st post, I hope you won’t find it too long.)
Thanks god, we were warned 🙂
3) Despite bumpy debut and the fact that the Eurofighter consortium is new at designing fighters, the political pressure over Switzerland is huge with four big European partners (especially Germany) involved in the deal, and three neighbours already using the Typhoon. Great for joint training exercices.
Sorry, but the only pressures from Germany over Switzerland I’m aware of are those about fiscal paradise.
About extra national exercices, it seems we enjoy a slight geographical advantage.
Yet it’s times of change, and one couldn’t rule out the possibility of the US getting rid of Pakistan as an ally (especially if they manage to confirm whether Al-Qaida’s real home is there).
Mr Obama is quite focused on the Afghan war, and Pakistan is a key player in that area, so for now, I wouldn’t bet one penny about such a change.
I admit I’m a bit lost in the MMRCA subject. So many varying/political factors…
Anyone on that forum who would say the opposite would be a liar :p
Brazil is a great country, but its surroundings are nowhere near as hostile as India’s. President Lula seems to be in rather good terms with almost every other country in North and Latin America and I don’t see any threat for which a SH or a Rafale wouldn’t be an overkill.
I think that you forget about the Russian toys in Venezuela.
As for India, I think it would be better for Brazil not to rely on a single country for weaponry, even if I hardly see how and why France could tighten the screws on Brazil…
Honnestly:
USA: out of question
Russia: already in bed with Venezuela
China: nothing serious between the two countries for what I know.
UK or Germany: both are quite silent about Brazil (I might be wrong thought)
AND with all those nice offshore oil patch, a modern carrier in the following decade might be an interesting item.
Who could help Brazil ? France, UK and perhaps China.
Again, that would be a real risk to try an “unknown” partner.
Well well well, let’s see what will happen in the close future first 😎
I did at first. But..there are much more detailed disscusions in the Rafale/EF threads, but the Swiss have confirmed price is not as important as what the plane can do. And since they are looking at predominately an interceptor/multirole the typhoon fits the bill, but as I said for more detail check the other threads.
Dassault – Thales manage to made a AESA ready Rafale which is a good point.
glitterSwiss competition: Gripen (even if I wish for Dassault to won that one)
Indian MRCA: F-18E (real politic before anything else)
Brazil FX: Rafale (same as above)
Libya: Flanker (or Spitfire Mk-IX, it’s all about Kadhafi mood)
Nederlands: F-35 (because it was signed)
glitterSwiss competition: Gripen (even if I wish for Dassault to won that one)
Indian MRCA: F-18E (real politic before anything else)
Brazil FX: Rafale (same as above)
Libya: Flanker (or Spitfire Mk-IX, it’s all about Kadhafi mood)
Nederlands: F-35 (because it was signed)
glitterHere is a bit of less good news.
IAF not keen on French offer for Kaveri engineExplained a member of the committee: “It would be better if GTRE and other laboratories working on the Kaveri brought the engine to its logical conclusion even if it took a few more years. At least we would have mastery over the core technology. This will be better than importing the French core, paying a lifelong royalty, but saying the Kaveri is our indigenous effort. Neither the French nor anybody else will give us the know-how on the core technology.”
Well, I don’t see that it as a definitive failure of the snecma offer since it is said that no other competitors enjoy a lead here.
And the solution “We really should fix the problem of the Kaveri instead” sound weird since the problem is that they can’t fix it.
glitterThe odds seem to high in my mind in some cases. I’d put UAE and Qatar at 60%. Greece at below 40%. Switzerland at 30%.
About Quatar, I always read that they wanted to sell their “brand new” mirages because the american officials in the country asked them to avoid too much french presence, so, what would be the meaning of buying Rafale ??
For UAE, I would say even more than 80% 🙂
For Switzerland, well, after that problem of ratio that will be redone for “noise pollution” reasons, I wouldn’t say any figure for the Rafale but among french posters (including me), Gripen seems the likely candidat.
About India, with all the issues with Russian naval stuff, I suppsoe it will affect badly any offer from Mig.
glitterit will not be a M88, Snecma as i understood it would just bring the hp compressor!
Honestly, I don’t understood much with Indian program, so, I won’t argue about that.
What is sure it’s that because of the naval Tejas, a 90Kn might be seen as kind of short.
According to Sarkozy
’nuff said.
glitterWill the Rafale replace the 2000N in the nuclear strike role? Carrying 1 ASMP missile?
I was wondering why do the French retain the nuclear strike role? Because they would have to forward base any fighters surely?
The Rafale is suppose to replace the Mirage 2000 N in a close future.
About that ASMP capacity, it must be said that this vector is more and more udner threat of a budget cut because of practical issues : Range of the couple plane + missile; Importance of the logistic for nuiclear weapons that made projection close to impossible etc etc
glitterActually there is something I am curious about, if I remember correctly Dassault offered to fit the Kaveri to the Rafale if wins the contract.
What kind of integration process would that require? And how would it affect performance?
The problem is that the Kaveri isn’t ready yet.
It seems that SNECMA will be asked to “help” with that task, and according to Indian posters on several forums, they hope something close to a 90Kn M88.
As we have said before on the RAfale thread n°4, the integration of a totally different engine can be close to impossible (because of the internal size available + weight and the problem with flight command).
Since there isn’t just very much Rafale “news”……why do we keep having these “Rafale News” threads? Seriously.
Perhaps because people are posting inside them 🙂
glitterHas Dassault offered to set up an assembly line in their potential customers’ countries like the the Americans did in the TUSAS facility in Ankara, Turkey which built 150 F-16Cs? By doing so, Dassault will make a profit off the assemblies sold to the non-French assembly line. By not doing so, Dassault makes 0% profit by losing the competition. Maybe it’s time for Dassault to change their business model.
You’re just 40 years late 😀
The last offer of that kind were for India in 2002 when Dassault proposed the transfert of the ONLY production line in India. The Indian governement refused.
Brazil received an offer of the same kind IIRC.
glitterThis was supposed to be covered in the planned sorties, surely?
Why don’t you ask to Armassuisse ?
A one year delay may be shorter than the delay on Typhoon.
Really ?
That remind me of the wonderful “windows of opportunity” that the Rafale was supposed to enjoy since 1996 to 2000 versus the “very late” Typhoon 🙂
glitterMeteor will be integrated onto Rafale, and that may happen before it does on Typhoon.
I always read that since we want a different seeker extrapolated from MICA, the “french Meteor” would be a full year late.
glitterI don’t think that there’s any technical reason why you couldn’t integrate AMRAAM on Rafale.
But I can’t see the US going out of its way to make it quick, or cheap.
Nor can I see French industry going out of its way to facillitate an alternative to French weapons. They believe in their kit, and probably believe that Rafale won’t be ‘binned’ because it offers what they might genuinely believe to be superior weapons. They’ll offer AMRAAM, but perhaps without a robust and credible enough integration roadmap to allay (what might be irrational) Swiss fears.
We are on the same line, no problem with that.
Except that when Dassault complain during the 70’s that SNECMA engine were clearly behind competitors, they know that french weapons are quite expensive for now.
I believe that the nine extra Rafale missions covered nothing that wasn’t covered within the sortie allocation for Gripen and Typhoon, but I don’t think that the fact that extra sorties were needed is terribly important.
These extra flight were about testing OSF in A2G and the Damocles pod in A2A.
Rafale needed a few extra sorties to complete its planned programme. (Perhaps Rafale went tech in the air, perhaps there were airspace issues, perhaps the evaluators decided they wanted to see something again, perhaps the pilot had the runs and had to abort). So what?
So what ? If it’s the customer who want to test a specific part of the plane, that can be seen as a potential good news.
glitterI’m talking about logistics which is completely different but rather important. I think a better way to phrase it “is it worth it spending money and time integrating AMRAAM onto the Rafale” the answer is probably no.
And why ? If it’s the wish of the customer, why not ?
This brings us to the main point by going for Rafale your accepting a type that has a weapons package that cannot be shared with their legacy hornet fleet.
I think it is an ENTIRELY rational argument when it comes to security of technology, neither Raytheon or Dassault (and Thales as avionics contractor if you so please) would be entirely happy about sharing information to allow AMRAAM integration and it certainly would be bogged down in paperwork especially in America.
Dassault/Thales wanted the integration during the Korean competition, something refused by the US congres.
Could you point me an official document from Thales to back up your statement ?
Could you point me an offical document from Raytheon saying that they refuse to see an AMRAAM on the Rafale ?
Because I hope you remember the chart from Dassault with the posibility of weapons under the wings, the AMRAAM was on the list.
The Swiss want a point defence fighter full stop…ability to attack ground targets and penetrate enemy air space is well down the priority list when it comes to this contest.
That’s why, I suppose, they asked extra flight of the rafale to test A2G functions ?
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