glitteru have no chance of fighter radar when u cant make top of the line AWACS.
Heee ? :confused:
whe u look at time scale of RDY-2. There is little prospect of supplying AESA equiped fighter with full functional capabilities. So i doubt French will be suplying AESA to IAF M2K (the cost and timelineof upgrade justify AESA) let alone to some MRCA fighter.
For now, there is no plan for an AESA array on the mirage 2000, so for sure, it won’t be ready soon.
Back in 2002, the Rafale Mk2, supposed to be ready by 2008, had an AESA. Since Korea refused that model, the radar was posponed for several year and will be ready in 2012.
Russian stuff is alot more secretive and they dont give any information on there performance..
Are you kidding me ?
The only figure is given of Su-35 which started as Sukhoi private venture and it has 400KM range radar. and can be delivered by 2010. similar is the case of MIG-35.
If today some one order EF/Rafale/Gripen. they are not capable of delivering 400Km range radar let alone for trails. I wonder how they are going to present AESA for IAF later this year with fully certified on weopons.
Perhaps because these radar are made to work in pair with these weapons.
The rest of stuff is pretty low end just like Russian AESA for detecting stealth.
I suppsoe you have the figures of the detecting range for F-35 and F-22 ?
glitterWhy should be there any doubt in Russian AESA claim.
:diablo:
Bars PESA almost matches APG-79 and Irbis is more in APG-77 class. There shouldnt be any doubt Zhuk-AESA.
Thanks to share with us these top secret informations.
EU AESA is very weak even for AWACS.
What the hell does that mean ?
It will take upto 2015 for decent slot array M2K. EU fighter AESA have no chance before 2020.
2020 ? Would you be kind enough to give us explanation with that figure ?
glitterManufacturer is saying it is not inferior to F-18E radar which is larger aircraft and more in line with Su-35. so how it is not superior to non-existent EU AESA.
Words words words.
glitterAnd, I thought the international list was,
Rafale-M?
And Eurofighter as well…?? (or was that last year?)
For the Rafale, it will be Rafale from the 1/7 Provence with F2 standard.
No Eurofighter this year IIRC
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/flag_units.html
glitterTouche! Indeed! This is essentially what I have been arguing for some time. The 330 is TOO BIG
During the singaporian compeition, one argument from Dassault about the range and payload of the Rafale was that it was ENOUGH for the request of that country.
The answer has been quite clear “In military matter, you never have enough”
:diablo:
glitterWell, that arguement may have held water if not … the very likely hood that India will sign a Nuclear Pact with the US!
I thought that story was nearly over. :confused:
Yet, the Rafale is a totally new design and I doubt the saving would be that great.
1) India will modernize these mirage with several sub-sytem derivated from the equivalent on the Rafale.
2) I’m glad to hear someone with that argument anyway.
From an Hornet to a Superhornet, to has never been a problem for american posters, nor Mig-29 to 35 and Su-27; su-30 to Su-35 :p
To counter balance that…………the Super Hornet would offer options the French Fighter just can compete with. Like the whole arsenal of US Weapons! Especially, PGM’s and let’s not forget the money and backing for future upgrades.
And everything for free I suppose ?
That maybe true in the case of the UAE. Yet, the US interest in the UAE are totally the opposite of that in India. As a matter of fact both India and the US see a Strategic Interest in closer cooperation. Really, its even much larger than that.
Poland believe such statements and look where they are now with their F-16.
glitterIf, as seems likely, trench3 gets cancelled that means it’s no-longer an MMRCA contender- leaving the Super-Hornet the clear favourite.
I thought it was more the Rafale, you know, from a country who don’t give you penalties in case of nuclear tests.
An Indian order for the BM would be pretty smart: sub-systems/weapons commonality & upgrades for ’35BM, ’30MKI & PAK-FA-MKI would save significant $ in the long-term.
Sorry, either the Su-35BM IS a total different beast than Su-30 MKI so that NO commonality is possible except to change everthing, either it’s possible but would mean that the Su-35 is nothing but marketing hype.
And about a Su-30; Su-35; PAK-FA fleet, until now, India was clear, they refuse to be dependant from a single vendor.
glitterYeah, most UAVs in that class have obscene endurance figures, but their loitering and cruise speed is glacial compared to what can be expected of the likes of Neuron, Taranis, UCAS-D and Skat. So it doesn’t translate into that much range afterall.
Do you think that a Rafale or Eurofighter can sustain more than M0.7 for a very long time ?
glitterSlovak Air Force
In details
glitterOut of the 3 euro canards only the Typhoon can supercruise at a decent speed with a decent load and that is around mach 1.2-mach 1.3 with 6 missiles and extra fuel .
Rafale, Mach 1.2 with 4 missiles and extra fuel.
Not enough :confused:
glitterthat a 30 year old design with a few upgrades can give the latest and greatest eurocanards a decent licking might be hard to digest, but stands as a tribute to a fantastic Russian design.
The su-35 is a “few upgrade” Su-27 ?
It’s not what is written in the brochure.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes me wonder. what exactly is the great advantage of the Eurocanards? Is it only to maintain a decent aerospace industry in europe?
The european aeropsace industry can kick some american butts in USA 🙂
performance wise, they hardly seem to offer anything better than upgraded flankers and eagles! one surely doubts their competitiveness when compared against a su-35 or F-15SG. And surely they are nowhere close to dealing with 5G a/c such as raptor, pakfas etc.
You’re talking about “old” airframes with very modern avionics, no doubt that it looks like a decent package. Specially with huge planes who enjoy a clear advantage with range.
About the 5G, a plane such like F-22 is impossible because of the cost even if we had the technological bricks.
It seems that Europe want to try to overcome the problem using drone.
I think at last I can understand why the Koreans or the Singaporeans went for the Eagles
Sure 😀
glitterIF the article is true, i think we can forget about new radars both in Rafale and EF. They will be judged based on their current radars and that’s what HAF will get.
I really doubt that HAF would refuse to consider those evolution.
On the other hand, tests can be done on AESA prototypes I think.
glitterTo tell the truth, i wish Dassault had sticked with the EF program, now everything would have been easier for everyone.
Honestly, shouldn’t France leave the program, I can’t imagine UK or Germany with Rafale-like typhoon.
glitterYou mean like the German magazines that write without problem that there is nothing wrong with their products, other than that the Greeks don’t want to buy? 😀
With the name of the minister involved in a bribery, with the details of the transfert ? How strange it might sound, the very fact that nobody sued these reporters is revelant.
But, but we are getting away of the topic.
What was the “end of the process” exactly? The end of the process in the KYSEA meeting.
according to Dassault, LM and the aerospace journalist, the end was very sudden.
It’s not a competition “whoever sells cheaper gets the contract”. If this was the case, we should buy Gripen. The Rafale WILL ALWAYS be cheaper compared to the EF
By 25% ?
That argument is in total opposition with the next move “no money for fighters but we would like to buy the most expensive of all”
Please do an internet search on how much the “normal” spendings of the Olympic games were supposed to be when Athens won the bid, how much it was grown after 2001
You know what ? I love Greece. I went there and fond that country wonderful and the people too.
so, I’m interested into that country even for non military reason.
And in my souvenir, just like for London, the official estimate cost of the Olypic games were a joke since the beginning.
so, the final cost wasn’t that surprising.
Of course you are free to believe that we also had the modest sum to pay the 60 Eurofighters , but i beg to differ.
I only want to point a quite inconsistent behaviour from the Greek governement.
It will return… No party stays forever in power. And it will “remember” if you blackmailed it
Your position with “blackmailing” is quite naïve honestly.
And my guess is, the conservative gov wouldn’t want to deal with such blackmailers either…
Wow, and not a word about the bribery ?
Do the serious french magazines wonder also about something else, like how exactly Dassault is doing its marketing? For example, why didn’t France offer exchange Mirage for Rafale, BEFORE we upgraded the Mirage2000-5? Instead of having just received the Mirage2000-5
Very honestly, several journalists wonder if Dassault isn’t “too french”.
Relying on a strong technical position and keeping a “weak” commarcial and marketing team.
It seems that in Singapore, the F-15 team proposed a much more flexible offer which won the day.
In Austria and Greece, Dassautl proposed Mirage 2000 against the Typhoon.
I find it quite strange, in Austria it seems we know why, I don’t know for greece.
As matter of fact, the entire Rafale project is seeking foreign buyers so to retrieve the money spent for current R&D.
Not really.
Look at the AESA.
Same technological bricks with the Typhoon, EXACTYLY the same.
Same devellopement with the Gripen.
The F3 is funded for quite some time, but not the Typhoon tranche3.
Dassault may very well be ready to fund with her own money the continuation of the 88-3 project. But, it doesn’t have to convince me, but HAF. That’s all. It also has to convince HAF for costs and costs in future support of the engine even if HAF is the only user. Also i don’t know how much HAF would like the idea of being the only user.
True, it’s a problem here.
But keep in mind that it’s a problem for SAFRAN, not Dassault.
Well, if it’s true, i would consider it a point in favour of the Rafale.
We did that for Mirage 2000-5 (Mirage 2000-5F) and we even did it for the Lafayette frigate.
Add to this, that the current French leadership, has made a very “hard” pro-greek turn, which arrives at a cosy moment for Greece. Politically we didn’t see any particular german support.
True, after all, it was the only way for Mr Sarkozy to keep the RAfale into the competition;
glitterHonestly, i find the “official” explanation about the funds needed for the Olympics, much more plausible than the french “spy story”.
wow, you’re the first person who think that that explanation is plausible 😀
the main question remain how several important magazines wrote that without any problem ?
Do you think that any greek gov. would give future tenders to France, a country that uses blackmail like common criminals? I don’t think so.
Blackmail ? My god, never.
Just that a Greek judge would haev find via a source that information.
we’re between gentlemen you know.
From the 2 explanations which seems the most logical to you? See, the difference between “truth” and “fiction” and “rumours”, is that usually, the truth resists to any logical questions that one may put, while the “fiction” starts “leaking” once you try to examine it critically.
Greece choose the EF before the end of the process quite suddenly, without warning any competitors but Eurofighter group.
Dassault and LM proposed deal 15 to 25% cheaper … in vain.
And suddenly, they remind that the Olympic games happen this very year before a “posponed” of a deal.
I don’t say that the “spy story” is true. I just say that I don’t believe a single second of that one.
If you blackmail to such extend someone, he won’t buy anything from you in the future, it’s that simple… Not only that, you will damage any political, military and economical relation for many years to come.
Fortunately, the socialist gov is out of power now.
What i have read from greek sources for the 88-3 is that that current status is “frozen”. Who will have to pay to “unfreeze” the program?
The prototype assembly has been speed up to try to convince Korea.
After the F-15 victory, the program has been nearly fundless and went his way quite slowly but for what I know reach the main goals ie the possibility of a 90Kn M88 with minor change to the Rafale.
Also, another issue for HAF is, “will we be the only airforce using that engine, when even the AdA isn’t using it?”.
This goes again back to the “future” and “costs” discussion.
I think that it’s obvious a Greek Rafale with M88-3 would provoke a buy from the french side.
Such moves has been seen numerous time.
The ECO of course is better than the simple 88-2, but in A2A combat, if you leave availability alone, doesn’t change anything.
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