The MinDEF are really going to explain, in public, why they overruled the air force, in print. :rolleyes:

Or talking about the problem of timescale. No ? Not a word ?

Beat Rafale in Greece, Saudi Arabia, the Netherlands, Norway and Singapore…..

No competition in Greece and saudi Arabia, only selection.
What competition in Netherlands are you referring to ?
In Norway, even Dassault said since the very beginning that NOrway wanted EF2000 or JSF
Victory in Singapore ? Well …

Unproven stories of bribes by BAE on other programmes. ‘Bribes’ which in Saudi Arabia relate to a much earlier procurement (of Tornado), and nothing to do with Typhoon.

Unless a true revolution into saudi internal affair, each deal comes with bribes.

But you’re French, don’t let the facts get in the way of a chance to whinge and moan about the Brits.

I fear that I could write about you the very same sentence except the permutation of countries

The F-15K is already operational. With advanced A-G weapons already undergoing clearance. Now is when the Koreans wanted their aircraft. Neither Rafale nor Eurofighter could meet this timescale.

The korean Eagle doesn’t have EASA.
How Rafale or EF2000 could compete since from the very beginning they couldn’t be bought ?
The rafale Mk2 delivery date was supposed to be 2008, only few months from now

The Koreans have explicitely denied that Rafale won.

the Korean governement ?

I’ve explained MMI. If you are unable to understand, you certainly won’t be able to interpret objective measurements of MMI – whether we used the Bedford Scale, Modified Cooper Harper or NASA TLX. Those were just some of the methods used by the Singaporeans and others who evaluated Rafale and Typhoon MMI, and using those methods, assessed Typhoon’s MMI as being superior.

And you can’t provide us just few cases ?

But why do I bother arguing with you? Your mind is made up! Rafale is French. So of course it’s better.

Just like above, I could write the same thing with you.

Dassault are not only the best fighter designers in Europe, they’re the only people in Europe capable of producing an advanced fighter. And the filthy English haven’t produced a decent aeroplane since the Spitfire (and that was inferior to the D520, of course). So of course Rafale is superior in every single respect, and there is not a single area in which Typhoon enjoys any superiority.

I have never written such things, sorry. Perhaps you think I’m only an alias of foofoone ?

I can easily recognized the superior agility of the EF2000 at supersonic speed, the better range of the RAPTOR, the superiority of the EJ200 in some aspect. But about MMI, I just ask something, not your testimony of EF2000 cheerleader, is it that hard to understand ?

You haven’t yet shown a single example of an area in which Rafale is ‘superior’.

Price ? Range ? Versatility ?

French wine and (my wife says) perfume. French weather. The French national soccer team (I prefer league football in the UK at the moment, thanks to “English players” like Thierry Henri!).

You forget the most important
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/C/citroen/c6/03-large/05-c6-f3q-st.jpg

But MMI? Sensor fusion? etc. I’m sorry, but France comes second.

Sensor fusion too ? So, here, I hope, you’ve got lots of things to compare, I’m sure.

Here is an interesting article from AW&ST, I was under the impression, mainly due to French posters, that the Rafale was way ahead of Eurofighter in integration of weapons

If I could criticized the Rafale team it’s about the integration of weapons.

Anyway, the point about the RAfale is more about the flexibility of the layout of the workload .

I have seen no reliable evidence for the claim that Rafale ‘won’ in Korea, and this has been explicitely denied by the Korean MoD and the RoKAF.

The only formula from the MinDef is something like:
“both competitors are less than 3% apart after our comparisons”
The translation from many, specially in Korea is
“The F-15 is behind but since we want to buy it, we won’t yell that the RAfale is ahead”.

I suspect that Rafale ‘lost’ more for political reasons

All french geopolitical experts used to laugh at Dassault stating that no way in hell they could sold them such strategic items.

and reasons of timescale than anything else (remember how immature Rafale was at that time), because timing was everything for the ROKAF.

The rafale was inside the timing of the rokaf (AESA only aavilable in 2008 at that time), the Eagle has been ahead but don’t change the fact that the limit was more 2008.

The sheer weight of evidence in support of the fact that Typhoon won the tech evaluation in Singapore is simply overwhelming for me.

But why doesn’t Singapore write it ?

Note that Typhoon has 90 export orders, and firm contracts for 492 aircraft. Rafale has none, and firm contracts for 112.

3 “selections” (with Greece) and 3 dirty stories of bribes 🙂

There is a much simpler explanation, which is that when they evaluate both aircraft, more air forces have found that Typhoon meets their requirements better than Rafale.

No avaluation in Greece and saudi Arabia.

OK I’m getting angry.

This apparent belief that “if you don’t name your sources they are of no use” is bonkers.

Please, calm down.
Just explain us how the RAfale MMI is so inferioir to the Typhoon.
Give us the figures.

No really, who would believe your “anonymous” sources after your Indian pilot and the 7.5g limited airframe of the mirage 2000.

With regard to the Jag kill, clearly the French pilot made a massive error. But it’s an excellent story to make our French friends uncomfortable with.

Uncomfortable ? A french journalist or a 12yo french boy you wanted to say ?

There may be a linguistic thing going on, but PESA is a dead end – a wrong turning, a technology that promised a great deal, but proved to be the wrong path.

You must remember that the Rafale hit a 10 years delay, but at that time, the PESA seemed to be the only answer for a multirole fighter.

while Euroradar enjoyed more luck and more success than they deserved, and the performance of Captor M has exceeded all expectations. (Just go and ask the Singaporeans!)

A pity that nothing leaked from singapore, only few elements gathered by that good ol’ John Lake but nobody can tell if it’s wrong or true.

Both aircraft have HOTAS – but Typhoon’s is easier to use, and mode changes are quicker and easier to achieve, even without the added benefits of DVI.

That seems easy.
So, you can give us how many moves are needed for that, the distance between two elements, wel, in fact, ANYTHING, but something, please.

I was personally under the impression that the Rafale did indeed beat the F 15 and Typhoon on technical and performance evalutions which were done in Holland, Singapore and South Korea, am I wrong ?

About singapore, we don’t know.

Maybe Dassault is one of the three makers that didn’t answer the JMOD requests for proposals?

DAsasult said that they wouldn’t answer to the japanese demand unless they can prove that the competition is really open.
AFAIK, no anwer from Japan, so no proposition from Dassault.

what Spacepope is saying is that the KC-767 is not based on an existing 767 model

Boeing is developing a brand new model, the 767-200LRF specifically for this competition.

So a “new” model, which means that the argument “767, a plane use all over the world” is wrong ?

….and she is supported by all french women. Just for say..

You’re not afraid to use any lies as soon as it’s about France 😀

The USAF is most likely going to get the 767 from Boeing.

Of course. It’s not as open as european markets.

The USAF has operated Boeing tankers for over 50 years, and with Boeing already having the 767 in service in a number of military roles, it’s got that nice “new but proven” thing going for it.

That argument works only for american products. Can you explain me why ?

After the Boeing scandal, if they had seriously considered the KC-30 at any point up until now, they would have gone for it.

For another scandal ?

They are just waiting for the dust to clear and to see what Boeing can offer with the 767 design. It’s only a matter of time.

Even competition in former USSR was more fair 😀

They will end up with a tanker that is far better than the one they’re currently flying, a tanker that will be far less expensive allowing them to buy a lot more, which in turn will give them better coverage(which is more important to the USAF), a smaller tanker which is what they wanted, and they will protect more American jobs. Four birds killed with one stone.

The competition is with the Airbus, not a 40 year old plane.
Protection of american jobs ?
How many jobs Boeing have outsourced in Japan or another country ?
I read an article about the fact that the value of american parts on an a380 with american engine might be superior to the 787 with RR engine 🙂

The only reason it’s done is for the so-called “globalization”, which has probably cost the U.S trillions of dollars and millions of jobs.

Oups, that was just a troll, sorry

Using a 100% common design would probably save some more money.
Bring on the Navalised Typhoon.

I think you wanted to say “Bring on the RN rafale” 🙂