Lastly I don’t know what the Mirage has over the Rafale seriously.

So am I.

I can only think of:
– cheaper price (when the mirage was stil available)
– engine MADE for high speed, so some advanatge while at supersonic speed (which isn’t really common)

It is the future option of MIG-29K for IN ADS. there is no Rafale option.

India want to buy Mig-29K, why would the RAfale can be an option ?
BTW in fact, it seems that Russian MAKE India buy it with the carrier.
that speak for the quality of the plane.

but how long will it take to actually put into fighter. i dont see it for that 59 Rafale order. so only next decade is possible.

Should a customer be interested into that engin it would be available in the next few years.
So, ok, the next decade, but not in 10 years.
And yes, even for 59 Rafale, SNECMA can propose a more powerful engine.
More to see in the M88 thread of that forum.

how can there be source for some thing 10 years in advance. how much poweful is MIG-MFI engines.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

it is not complex than modernizing entire plan from engines to fbw to Mtow.

Stop mixing everything as soon as you lost an argument, just like the 40% more powerful AL-31 the line above.
You said “the mirage 2000-9 is a small upgrade”. I said it was the most complex upgrade that you can think of.
And now you’re comparing it with the upgrade from the Mig-29 to the -29K (or -29SMT, it’s when figures are in your favor or not).
The new Mig-29 are nearly totally different, yes, perhaps that the airframe of the Mig couldn’t allowed Mig a smooth evolution in opposite with Mirage or F-16.

even u go to MIG website. information is still outdated.

So, I stand correct. A bigger plane than the rafale has a better range of “50 km”. By using your way of thinking, the range of the Mig-29 is ridiculous.

it as even better than the MIG-29OVT. that aircraft lacks the -MK engine and advance materials.

The -OVT isn’t a final versions.

the fact that Korean chose slot array F-15 speak for itself tech level of Rafale.

The name of the winner of the competition has never been released.
Both planes were close, by knowing that the F-15 enjoyed a huge advantage with the ROK using US planes, it only means that the Rafale was ahead globally speaking AND that it was obviously the winner of the competition 🙂
AFter that, Korea bought the F-15 K (without AESA :D) but only to keep the american support.

offcourse they will have updated electronics. but they dont have the range, speed, and warhead to sink a carrier (400KG with Club). i will not put even in Uran league.

Too many arguments at once. I’m blind 😡
:rolleyes:

MIG-29K is very formidable plane even without expensive materials used in its construction or phased array radar.

Formidable ? Why ? What’s so special with it ?

If u want 40% more powerful engine in Su-33, just ask. this is the only reason preventing powrful engines for Flanker.

So, a more than 170 kN thrust for the SU-33 ? Unless you’re talking of the AL-41, I don’t see what kind of engine you’re talking about.
Anyway, I was talking just about an improved version of the M-88, not a brand new engine that wasn’t made to be incorporated into the plane.

reliable? how many rafale has actually been built and flight hrs per year.

The rafale isn’t an engine 😉

Rafale range is ridiculous for its size.

LEt’s see
The mig-29K is a bit bigge than the rafale:
RAfale M range: 1800 km
Mig-29K: 1500 Km
http://avions.legendaires.free.fr/mig29.php
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale

considering how much expensive it is due to materials. and short range weopons for air to air and anti-ship. the same amount of money u spent on MIG-29K. and it will be Gold Standard with supercruise engines and vastly improved range.

That’s nice, really

failure of rafale export has clearly proven beyond doubt. If there was anything of substance for price. it would have been chosen by traditional Mirage users like UAE/India/Greek etc.

You really don’t know much about that subject I fear.
During competition,the rafale has always been ranked among the finalist.

two non-stealth fighters with one bigger and one smaller how can smaller one more capable than the larger one.? the only thing against larger fighter is cost of training and maintaining.

Yes, obviously I’m right.

One way to get at the French would be to punish not just them in terms of military/technology co-operation, but also other European nations in order to try to get them to put pressure on Paris. Of course there could be more direct economic action too.

It has been the topic on a thread on a french forum.
Economically speaking, it’s the UE that can force France to give such a sale UNLESS the USA accept to play dirty (by supporting every terrorist group in France for instance).

that pathetic harpoon/Exocet combo.

I’m sure you think that the 2006 harpoon/Exocet are the same than those used during the 80’s, am I right ?

these aircraft are even less capable than MIG-29K.

I’m lost. Do you want to compare Mig-29K with Super Hornet and RAfale ?

both are underpowered and needs fuel tanks for any decent mission.

If you want 20% more powerful engine on a RAfale, just ask.
Underpowered ? Is it another word for “reliable engine” ? No doubt the Su-33 has very powerful ones.
About the range, for it’s size, the rafale isn’t ridiculous at all.

Rafale has very smallish nose.

Yes, it flew in 1986 but it’s only in 2006 that Dassault has noticed that they can’t put a decent radar into the nose.

Mroe seriously, the fact that such pathetic argument must be used to lowered its qualities is a tribute to the skills of Dassault engineers.

China may buy RAfale ? what a joke.

http://www.leblogfinance.com/2006/10/dassault_vendra.html

Alors que l’affaire avait été démentie en Juin, c’est désormais chose faite : le groupe Dassault serait sur le point de vendre 18 avions de combat Rafale au Maroc, selon le quotidien Le Figaro et la presse du Maroc. L’armée marocaine serait ainsi le premier client étranger du Rafale de Dassault Aviation.

It seems that even if it has been denied back in June, it’s nearly official.

If the 150 millions is the price for (a fleet of F-35 + infracstructure + weapons + spare prts for years)/ number of F-35, it doesn’t sound VERY expensive since it shouldn’t be much higher than the equivalent of a Rafale or Typhoon.

The problem is that the goal was to be twice cheaper than the eurocanard.

Still the EF2000 is several times more expensive to operate than the alternatives. For an air wing with a very small budget operating cost is important. I wouldn´t be surprised if the several of austrian EF2000 will be hangar queens because of this.

An easy maintenance was a requirement of the EF2000 IIRC, so the difference with an old F-5 shouldn’t be that wide.