In france, we’ve got the famous super mirage 4000
http://aircraftstories.free.fr/mono/4000/mirage4000/2.jpg
Late 2004 or early 2005 ?
that the first time I see a deadline for this deal.
Hope Dassault will win it.
Grumman, General Dynamics, Lockheed, Northrop, North American and Boeing were all working company funded and government contracts for composite aero structures in the late 1960s. This was 20 years before the F-2.
No, I do not think the evil American stole technology from the hapless Japanese :rolleyes:
Not stole, but bought at pretty low prices would be more accurate. 😀
Couldn’t agree more with Aurel.
The japanese market is relly unique of his own.
This report is FIVE years OLD
1) Indian is famous for being a bite slow on military market 😉
2) for HUGE contracts like that it’s even slower.
NOthing to worry about I think
Glitter,
Regarding the range of the Mirage-2000 Mk.II, here are some highly specific figures from Dassault,
That’s not use to speak about that topic.
Even in France, some officers think that these are useless relics of the past.
the two problems are that
The mirage has too few fuel
the engine wasn’t supposed to fly at low altitude all the time.
Arthur did make an important point – the RDY-1 equipped Mirage-2000-5 is’nt really too much more than an air-to-air machine and it’s the newer Mirage-2000-5 Mk.II which is being considered, because, the IAF’s requirement specifies aircraft to cater to primarily, a strike role. The Mirage-2000-5 Mk.II is pretty ahead of the -5 in most aspects. ,
“Most” is perhaps overrated but it sound normal that the -5 Mk2 is above the -5.
But both are made for A2A ….
Otherwise I would think the French should move their asses and sell them the Rafale.
YEs, but that’s why I asked the question. Is Japan allowed to buy non american stuff like Typhoon or RAfale ?
F-2 is a jobs program. If viewed as such, you can see why cost overruns and schedule slips were of minor concern.
I have heard about budget troubles over the F-2 since its first flight.
But, as any country in the world, an indegenous program is something pretty important and governements always make an affort about it.
glitter you raise an important point, a new Govt has taken over with more stronger pro russian old guard, the commies won’t mind russian anyway.
It wasn’t my point. I said that I have the feeling that the IAF did too much internal stuff and the governement (old and new) want to grap more influence over it.
ANd keep in mind that India use materials from 3 main sources and that work pretty well until now.
Also there seems to be a dispute with France over the 10 current Mirage 2000s ordered.
Dunno, perhaps, perhaps not.
Essentially I do not see a deal, I personally believe that we should put off talks of squadron number upgrades and wait for the MCA or PAk-fa, spend the saved money on the pak fa project and it will bear fruit in about 10 yrs.
10 years ?
And the IAF pilots will die using outdated Mig ?
It would be more feasable to upgrade the current Mirage fleet and buy another 24 fighters for the nuke role. .
I must say that a special squadron of MKI upgrade for nuke strike sound much better than mirage.
I fail to see how the Grippen is in the contest, it is just too LCAish and Sweden won’t sell to the nuke arsenal.
If India shout everywhere that the grippen will be use for nuclear mission, Sweden would refuse the deal. If India is discret, nobody would criticize Sweden, all planes can be use for nuclear strike.
Ouch, I really feel sorry for Japan.
That F-2 was a real surprise for most countries who wouldn’t have suspect that japanese societies could develloped this kind of high end fighter.
Pity that the USA pressured them so that they built the best aircraft for them.
BTW what’s the law now ? Does Japan MUST follow the US Aabout weapons or what ?
France should not be selling any military equipment which India will be using for its nuclear weaponry. If France is willing to sell any equipment to India which can carry or deliver nuclear weapons than France will be violating NPT and serious actions should be taken against India for buying nuclear capable equipment.
France doesn’t sell mirage 2000 N but mirag 2000-5.
Every plane can be use to launch a nuclear bomb.
I recently read in Flight International that the contest for future fighter has not even started yet
In fact, I heard that the IAF internal contest have been rejected by the Indian gov and want a new competition with the grippen and mig-29 opposed to the mirage.
On the other hand, that story of 126 mirage is now 2 years old.
and the price for one Mirage 2000-5MK is close to $100 million.
You must have misundrstood. No way the mirage 2000 can be that cheap.
For that price, dassault can sell you the nose of a mirage + the seat of the pilot, nothing more :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
One have to understand simple logic.
Interms of Unit cost and licensing M2K is more expensive than MKI and India is buying an aircraft for 21st century not 20 the century. So it is unlikely that IAF will accept an aircraft which is less sophisticated than MKI and cost more and comes later.
The problem that everyone missed is that if the deal of the first article can reach the signature, no one here know the conditions and characteristics.
IF these mirage are mostle built in India, how much will they cost ?
So minimum requirements are
1. New engine either M53PX or M88-4
……
6. Aircraft should be more advance(Just imagine more advance than LCA) and a source of technolgy for Indian Indigenous programs.
So, buy a Rafale, not a mirage.
Why should India pay more for an aircraft which has less range and payload and cost more than MKI and?. The only reason will be that it will be more advance than what India has or will produce.
Or perhaps that India can’t afford to use several hundreds of MKI.
I’m curious about this continuous mentioning of the M2K-5 as a striker for the IAF, while the Mirage 2000-5 is a pure air-to-air machine. The RDY-radar-equipped version of the M2K ment for ground attack (with mapping and SAR modes on the radar) is the Mirage 2000-9, formerly known as Mirage 2000-5MkII.
The RDY can be use for A2A or A2g mission but that has to be specified at the set up of the mission in the radar and can’t do both.
BAe said that the captor can do that.
What about using Su-30MKIs for this role? Not just as an escort for the M2K-5, but as a dedicated nuclear strike platform by itself. They have considerable range and they can hold their fort very well.
Regards.
Be careful.
As I said, if the aircraft have been studied when everyone thought that it will be use in high altitude, the problem would be the same.
I always heard that a mirage isn’t so short-legged in comparison of an eagle if both fly very low.
Because the engine of the mirage 2000 have been studied with high altitudes et high speed in mind.
the range of our mirage 2000 N (nuclear strike) is so low that they are totally useless even in Europe, so I can’t even think about it in Asia.
Mirage 2000 form low altitude striker
:rolleyes:
Experience building has to start somewhere…
Of course, but why the LCA should be the backbone of the Indian AF ?
Why not several sqadrons to test it.
when the french AF started to use jets, they had bought lots of americans fighters + the new dassault products but not dassault only since the beginning.