k can anyone post the link to the article which had mentioned aby the revival of the Indian AWACs and which particularly mentioned abt the earlier tests results to help in furthering the new system.

“Individually, the MiG-25 may retire because of shelf life but as a fleet they will continue to operate. It is the systems and the avionics that get upgraded in these aircrafts and a couple of years ago the avionics and systems got upgraded,” says Sudhir Saxena, Research Fellow at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA).

anyone got any info whatso ever as to what all might have got upgraded??.

radar?, camera? engine? Fuel system?…

But happy to see that I’ve got Friends at High Places 😉 … as can be seen in here, hope we can make that friendship closer with some MiG-31M 🙂

“This is the only strategic reconnaissance aircraft we have and it will be foolish to ground these planes,” says a source with the Military Intelligence.

He adds, “We have the MiG-25 with us for quite some time and it is a known fact but its operations are a closely-guarded secret.”

Strategic think tank officials echo the thoughts of the officers at the Military Intelligence.

They already are planing on a freighter version which could be used in the Strategic transport role, one deck for cargo, one deck for passengers and one deck for extra fuel.

one thread for the speculative strategic version is in here

I think, they might make it a reality and see-off the C-17

I’m not yet clear, if the M was cleared like the BM for 9 t payload. But i find no reason for it not having been modified for it.

…. what western engine do u inted to get on to the MiG-31??

How abt AL-41 for the MiG-31, won’t it fit in?? …..

BTW, MiG-31 did not have supercruise, isn’t it…and was fully on AB …. so hows was the engine …. as normally in other a/c AB is used for a very short duration mainly coz of fuel consumption and — ???

Austin,

Wanshan , Addidition of Booster is a good example of extending the range and increasing its life , But what I am mainly looking at Improvement in Shtil besides the one mentioned is to Improve upon its sensors , Instead of the present SARH mode of Guidance an Active radar or IIR mode of guidance will do a lot good to the system.

but, improving its sensors aka making it ARH wud mean than additional cost and Shtil is basically meant as a low cost highly effective missile, with the condition that the guidance for it is there. Btw, Shtil is the normal aka arm launched missile system and Shtil-1 is the VL system which smaller control surface (and not that appealing, atleast for me) and vectoring nozzle (Garry am i rite?) …. in terms of beauty (yeah i look it that way too …hehe) the SM series is damn good looking, and had wished to see the Shtil (9m317) to be like that and in the future with a booster too, but the VL version is like blad, almost ugly …. looking at its control surfaces make me doubt if its as manuevrable as the 9m317.

SARH suffers one major disadvantage is that if the Guiding platform is lost in this case the ship , the missile ends up being a Dud , So even having Multiple Launch capability the inherent disadvantage of SARH is there specially when its short on Range between 30 – 40 km.

yes, i particularly don like the IN stick with these short range missile and then giveing the whole thing a very BIG name – area defence – its actually small area. I hope they enlarge that ‘area’ a bit more bigger to hve 100 + km missiles. But as said earlier, the Shtil is a low cost missile and Russians sell it like that and thats is the reason y its SARH. I don think there wud be a great deal of work to make it aa ARH, but there must be someone seeking the missile (as Russian Navy wud not be in emeegrncy need now) if yes , i don see the Russians putting up an ARH variant of the same.

BTW Austin ….. how come the SARH comes into disadvantage when the ship is lost … 😉 …. they are there to protect the ship first, but ok, the sub element is there … but still …

So the best solution for Shtil upgrade would be

Shtil-1 + Booster + IIR/Active Radar Homing

yup exactly, thats what i too want from the Shtil-1, hope a version of that kind come out in the near future.

if the above system could achieve a range of 70-80 km from the present 45 Km that would be a welcome change , I am sure IN would love to have such system.

yea 70-80 km is good, but its better to have it in the 100 + range and wud love to see it in the form of a 290 km (MTCR) range Shtil-X.

BTW as u said earlier, the small 9M96E2 (120 Km range) missile that come with the S-400 wud be a fine one in the naval form, as it got good range & is more compact than the Aster also. In addition to that is its also lighter as the penalty of the booster weight is not there with the missile. I hope some progress is made on making a naval variant of this missile. BTW Austin, there are three missile with the S-300 with an option for the smaller missile – 9m96e (40km) and 9m96e2 (120km) and of this the better option obviously wud be the 9m96e2 with a 120 km range.

Emm VL launched Adder would again be short on Range , not more than 15-20 Km , also its ability to kill a tight and highly manovering and high speed target ( like supersonic missile ) in the end game would be highly doubtful .

well i don know if the range of a missile with a 100km range (ideal condition) will come down so much (15-20km) on VL firing … maybe 30-40Km? …but addition of booster wud be good though. Now i don think the seker and its manuerabiliy wud be a problem, after all its meant for takiing on 12g manuevering targets, so that department seems ok, but will have to get refined for naval ops.

BTW, how much was the range of the vertically launched RVV-AE-ZRK/R-77-ZRK that was meant for the ground ADS much like what MBDA is presenting with their VL Mica??

I hope the Russians jump into that game and spoil the French hope of getting the VL Mica installed with the Indian Army, with their own VL variant of R-77 – the R-77-ZRK 😀 …. that wud be really fine. After all, in the 90’s the French in the name of collaboration have tried a lot to get VL and cold launch tech from the Russians, where as the Russians thought that they were in for joint development, the French idea was get as much from the Russians and make their own stuff and market it independently. But i don know how much they have it in their Aster though. Isn’t Aster and Mica VL hot launched like other western missiles ??

The MRDS also wud be a fine one which seems a lot more better than what the French can offer with the VL Mica ADS.

Abt the Shtil-1 (which is the VL), is a multi-channel missile (again low cost) and for that illuminators is necessary, which determines how many channel system they become. The Shtil-1 ranges from 2 at the minimum to 4, 6, 8, 10(?) and 12 channel system.

here is a quote from Milparade.

The Shtil system, too, is a multi-channel device. In the Shtil the multi-channel feature is achieved by the number of illuminators applied to each target. This is built on the modular principle and, depending on the ship’s water displacement, may have 4, 6, 8 and 12 channels. The Shtil system has no radar of its own. It uses information coming from the ship’s radar, which is why it is not very expensive.

The picture below seems like that of a 12 channel Shtil-1 system with it showing intercepting 10 targets. BTW, am not sure, if this multi-channel one is meant only for the VL version. but it seem more likely so …

one more article, with some pic and some mention abt upgrades that was carried on the IAFs MiG-25s

IAF to retire space-edge fighter?

PERCY FERNANDEZ

INDIATIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, APRIL 25, 2005 03:55:08 PM ]

NEW DELHI: In the theater of high altitude military operations, no other plane is as cunning, swift and exotic as the MiG-25, codenamed Foxbat by the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO).

The MiG-25, capable of reaching Mach 3 or three times the speed of sound and flying at the edge of outspace, is basically a spy plane.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has kept the Foxbat’s operations and exploits a closely-guarded secret and seldom displayed it in public for strategic purposes.

The wily reconnaissance-cum-interceptor has flown many a sorties into the enemy territory without being noticed.

The only other aircraft that equalled its exoticness was the SR-71, named Blackbird and built by the Lockheed-Martin Skunkworks. In fact, Foxbat was built to counter the Blackbird.

The No 102 Squadron operates the MiG-25, Foxbat KP-351, the single-seat version in IAF’s service.

Nicknamed the Trisonics, the Squadron is located in Bakshi-ka-Talab in Bareilly.

Established under the Central Air Command, it has an estimated number of six combat planes and 2 MiG-25U, a two-seat plane solely used for training.

India acquired the MiG-25s from then USSR during the early 80s and at the height of the Cold War.

There are many variations to the Foxbat.

The MiG-25R, MiG-25RB and MiG-25BM are derivatives from the MiG-25P. The MiG-25R is a tactical reconnaissance aircraft.

The MiG-25RB is a variant for bombing area and large targets.

The aircraft is fitted with a reconnaissance station, aerial camera, topographic aerial camera, sighting and navigation system to bomb programmed targets, and electronic countermeasures equipment, which includes active jamming and electronic reconnaissance systems.

The Soviets did not have the commercial luxury like the Americans till they found an answer in MiG-25 which can counter air targets in all weather conditions and all warfare environments.

The Foxbat is both an interceptor and a high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft with a limited precision bombing facility.

The Foxbat is in service in Algeria, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Kazhakstan, Libya, Russia, Syria and Ukarine.

After the breakdown of USSR and a radical change in the world of military aviation, strategic reconnaissance aircrafts have slipped down in the priority list because there has been a change in the nature of the geopolitics, military strategy and warfare.

In fact there has been no dedicated development of these planes. Only mid life upgrades where the systems and avionics undergo a change.

One of the main reasons why these magnificent flying machines are losing favour is that they have outlived their utility.

Satellites and other tracking technologies have become far more sophisticated from the time that the Foxbat was manufactured.

Militaries no longer need to fly supersonic high-flying aircraft to figure out what the enemy is up to. Satellites and unmanned aircraft now do the job.

There have been reports that the Foxbat might be taken off reconniasance duties by the IAF, but these reports are not confirmed yet.

“This is the only strategic reconnaissance aircraft we have and it will be foolish to ground these planes,” says a source with the Military Intelligence.

He adds, “We have the MiG-25 with us for quite some time and it is a known fact but its operations are a closely-guarded secret.”

Strategic think tank officials echo the thoughts of the officers at the Military Intelligence.

“Individually, the MiG-25 may retire because of shelf life but as a fleet they will continue to operate. It is the systems and the avionics that get upgraded in these aircrafts and a couple of years ago the avionics and systems got upgraded,” says Sudhir Saxena, Research Fellow at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA).

One small animated MiG-25

The press article showed, that the author has limited knowledge.

they always have been , but i never see that being noted, when they used to bash the LCA, MiG-21 and the IAF w/o even studying the causes.

Pakistan have no EW-radars?

and what do u think , made the IAF’s Foxbats enter the pakistani airspace, right over the capital Islamabad and no one came in?

Pakistani fighters never create a supersonic boom?

impaired to even comprehend the article?
….

The IAF Mirage-2000/Matra Super 530 can intercept MiG-25 targets without problem!

k, so what

What targets are left behind that for a ‘trisonic’ ?

well, some guese arrived over Pohkran after India’s N-test, but flew off before the IAF cud scramble its fighters to intercept it, even though the AD identified the intruder, but the politicians gave negative for an missile intercept.

And the future wont be defferent either, i thinks there is a need for hight alt interceptor which can double upo as recce and strike as long as any one operate high altitude a/c and have the pleasure of intruding Indian airspace from down south … and MiG-31 fits thatin, but its all IAF’s decesion to want it or not, in addition to political.

The Indians operated the recce variant only. The high altitude intercepts are done by the Mirage-2000.

so who said they are used for interceptors …