That U.S. ascertainment doesn’t really suprise me. The U.S. is very clear about its orbital superiority plans.
Again I’m disgusted to see how the EU is poisoning the transatlantic climate for the sake of promoting an “European identity”. That is not the way to go.

Have you got an IDENTITY and FREEDOM of your own ????

If not, then u r very much valid in ur thoughts abt Europe not to have its identity and freedom and the world at large!

What can you do with Galileo that you can’t already do now with NavStar or Glonass?

U get what u need at ur time and place at the quality that u look forward, and not what someone else want u to have at their choice of time and quality which comes in not at ur price, but theirs!

No way the U.S. will allow some Euro-Hindu-Sino-GPS to be used against them.

and that seems like the words coming out from an American Christian Missionary, who already have been very much active in India’s NE since the 40’s and have converted almost 90% of the population and among their ‘charity’ include the separatists insurgets who get the backing from the church which is as clear as broad day-light amoung the Indian Intelligence, but pity that pseudo secular bosses won’t dare to say that in open for fear of the getting branded …real pity.

and it wasnt long back that the ACM’s pie did some hunting along the Indian Missile Testing Range at Balassore before the locals fried him which again got some special treatments from the world media, not to mention the barking from the bottom of the world, which was along the lines of what they did during the N-test and after then with their survey of IN’s new baby for the Unkil.

@ PLA & India…: China sure has potential, but India will remain a noshow.

and thats what I want Indian’s to realise and move forward.

(And if some people find my ascertainment racist – I don’t give a hoot!)

Now thats the very best that one can expect, in the wildest wet dreams from any cultureless, ignorant, arrogant and equally retarded $astards …. but then I wont be exaggerating abt that terms coz it would be great to know if freelanders actually have or keep a list of their mom n dads …

Castor,

Do you honestly think that a country like Czech republic, who’ve been occupied by the Soviet Union for more than 50 years, can consider the US as a friendly country – when you try to threaten them? (Note: I’m referring to when Mr Craig Stapleton, former US ambassador in Prague, threatened the Czechs that choosing Gripen instead of F-16 would damage the relationship between US and Czech republic for a long time.)

to be pretty honest , u should not compare any former soviet state to that of the frelanders market, coz what u get are two different products ….. the Czech even though as said to have been oppressed, an alien concept like freedom and not to mention the long list still have got many to their credit whcih they did not have in their past 50 yeasrs! … say that as surprise or miracle, but thats true …. and I don ned to give u a list ……. but y dont we move to another place nearly the other end of the world???……..

Oh Yeah …. u guys got it…….. JAPAN ……without any doubt the Mightiest Asian Country and an Industrial Gaint in the19th century who rose to power w/o any European ‘enlightment’ … like what the British scripted history book of all the commonwealth nations teaches. BUT the Japanese were EVIL, or say say the Noble guys & empire, and what made them evil??…. their alinging with the Nazi Germany and Italy …. and ofcourse they were ‘invading’ Asian nations for their evil designs. WOW what a theory from Noble minds …. and for any sensible person these all will surely look like a big JOKE ……. now Japan was indeed invading other lands for sure for meeting their Industrial needs where as the Noble empire was colonising for the same. But the Japanese NEVER INVADED ANY SOVEREIGN NATION for their expansion!!! …..what they invaded was the British, American and other European COLONIES!

But then the poor innocent Japanese citizens (whose pre-freedom history , their lifestyle, society etc etc are seldom seen or head on any world stage today), who were dying for ‘fredom’ got their FREEDOM when it came in the form of mashroom clouds at Hiroshima and Nagasaaki and have been a free world since then till this very moment. But it would not have been so easy if the Japanese ruler had wanted to wipe out his entire population , repeat, CIVIL POPULATION, NOT MILITARY .. he would have continued till the last, but then he was not so noble like the Noble men who dropped freeBOOM for the Japanese citizens, he was an evil nut. So thats should have been expected. But then, if the God be kind enough the freelanders will some day get to have a feel of mashroom freedom from maybe their own guys. Some day.

But what is Japan now???…… a Nation that produced mighty ships, aircrafts, submarines, a huge industrial base etc etc and an undisputed mighty Asian Nation which rose to its status with the sweat of the hard working Japanese who would have been a role model for all the Asian nations in tune with the God given geography – the land of the Rising sun ……

But now, I don see them using a Japanses Designed aircraft for their civil liners, let alone any Japaneese Aviation company or Desin Buaera. I dont see their military using any japanese military products, let alone any true R&D or Military establishment. I don see Japan having any independent industry, I don see them having any independ policy, let alone any freedom of though for an Independent policy. I don see them having any non-degraded military ships, let alone any decent indegenious Military shipbuilding capacity. I don see them having any decent defence from missiles, let alone any indegenious defence system, whose only master is truly Japanese, and not some one from the other continent. … the list goes on… and thats what Japan is now , a big ‘Market’ …. or what earlier used to be called as ‘colony’ …. a big politically and militarily controlled Market. Now I don wanna mention the induced craze for sex in Japan, and thats also what freelanders bought in as that was an integral part as that was what their granma’s, granpa’s, mom & dad has been showcasing them. … so now almost all teenage Japanese girl is just a Japaneese Doll who looks only good in B’day suit and with obvious other stuffs.

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a comparison of the GPS and GLONASS is in this link u guys can check out …. its from what Kya Bidu posted …

http://www.oso.chalmers.se/~geo/gg_comp.html

it also says 24 each satellites …..of the 30 satellites which will be the final one for the GPS, 6 will be spare or reserves …. a bit old …

here is another short article abt the GPS system
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THE GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM (GPS)

Satellite navigation systems provide a highly accurate means of determining the precise position of an object on or over the earth’s surface. Accurate satellite data allows a cruise missile to receive regular mid-course updates which counteract the drift inherent in traditional gyroscope-based inertial navigation systems (‘INS’). Packaged with even a simple INS, satellite navigation systems give a cruise missile accuracies of between 10 and 100 metres.

Two satellite navigation systems are currently being established. The United States has recently completed its Global Positioning System (‘GPS’); its Russian equivalent is the Global Navigation Satellite System (‘GLONASS’).

The US GPS consists of twenty four NAVSTAR satellites in polar orbit (three of which are back-ups), a network of ground stations which constantly check and maintain the accuracy of the satellite data, and the necessary receiver units which translate the satellite data into precise positional information. The system can be used to obtain both horizontal (latitude and longitude) and vertical (altitude) fixes. Signals from three satellites are needed to obtain horizontal fixes, the signal from a fourth to obtain the vertical fix and give a complete three-dimensional position. If the receiver picks up data from more than four satellites, the accuracy of the fix is increased.

Although the GPS was originally intended to be used for purely military applications, the shooting down of an off-course Korean commercial airliner by Soviet fighters in 1983 led President Reagan to direct that it be made available for commercial users.

The commercial Course/Acquisition (‘C/A’) Code is openly available, and was intended to give accuracies of between 30 and 100 metres. However, when it became clear that in practice the C/A code was accurate to nearer 10 metres, the US Department of Defense introduced Selective Availability (‘S/A’), which deliberately reduces the accuracy of the signal (‘degrades’ it) to some 100 metres in the horizontal plane and 140 metres in the vertical. It is claimed that S/A fixes will be accurate 95% of the time, yet in circumstances when an optimal configuration of four or five satellites is not ‘visible’ to the receiver it is possible that this accuracy may fall to around 300 metres.

GPS accuracies are expressed in terms of dRAMS, one dRAM being a 2.5% probability of inaccuracy. The accuracy of the S/A code is defined as 100 metres with a 2 dRAMS confidence. This means that 95% of fixes will be accurate to within 100 metres of the actual position. It does not, however, follow that a missile guided by S/A code would achieve a Circular Area Probable (‘CEP’) of 100 metres: dRAM has a 95% confidence level and CEP a 50% confidence level, therefore the two figures cannot be interchanged. As the 2 dRAM S/A GPS fix equates to a CEP four tenths as large, the CEP of a cruise missile utilising the S/A code would be approximately 40 metres (i.e. 50% of missiles fired would arrive within 40 metres of the target).

Although the full implementation of the Russian GLONASS has slowed since the break up of the Soviet Union, it should offer a very similar service to its US counterpart. Like the GPS, GLONASS consists of twenty four satellites which transmit both military and civilian signals of comparable accuracies to the GPS P and C/A codes. Whilst the two systems operate slightly differently, integrated receivers accessing signals from both networks will reportedly give accuracies of some 20 metres, effectively circumventing US efforts to degrade the S/A code.

DIFFERENTIAL GPS

The data transmitted by GPS can, however, be significantly upgraded by a process known as Differential GPS (‘DGPS’). This relies on a second receiver, known as the reference receiver, located in a precisely-determined spot, broadcasting a correction signal on a different frequency to the other GPS receiver. This can be effective even if the two receivers are more than 1,000 km apart, and makes it possible for users of the military P-code to attain fixes accurate to between 75 cm and 5 metres. S/A code can be improved by a factor of ten, to between 2 and 5 metres.

Although this technology is only just beginning to emerge, it is already utilised for surveying, maritime safety and civilian aviation applications. The integration of DGPS into cruise missile guidance systems is certainly feasible, although this would require that reference updates be transmitted through a data link to the missile in flight via a mother plane or ground station. However, given that DGPS reference stations are being constructed along the coast of the United States and their signals broadcast by way of other satellites, it appears likely that its accessibility will grow.

Integrated into a cruise missile, these navigation systems will enable developing nations to perform a technological leap-frog. Israel already claims that its GPS-equipped Delilah RPV can reportedly attain accuracies of less than 100 metres, and India is working to adapt GPS for both its cruise and ballistic missile programmes. Pakistan, China and Iran are also reported to be seeking means of integrating GPS into RPVs and missiles. Although the degrading of codes from GPS and GLONASS should, in theory, prevent developing nations from developing cruise missiles with accuracies better than 100 metres, this is likely to be circumvented by further advances in technology. Likewise, whilst GPS signals can be jammed using electronic countermeasures, this may not prove practical in all circumstances. However, the GPS S/A code can, if necessary, be switched off, as was the case during operation Desert Storm and during the US invasion of Haiti.

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This ia a 2001 article abt the Ka-50s operation in Chechnya and also in brief. So all thoase who don’t have any idea as to the Ka-50/52s can try to get some thing abt the Kamovs and stop BS regarding the Ka-50.

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Kamov Ka-50 in Chechnya

Philadelphia, Mar. 14, 2001 — Following the initial deployment to Chechnya last year, the Russian Army’s Ka-50 “Black Shark” attack helicopters for the first time have fired live ammo against an actual enemy on January 6, 2001 in Chechnya.

A small force of coaxial Kamov Ka-50 attack helicopters were reported to be based at Grozny’s “Northern” airport when they were deployed to the province. The actual location of their base is classified and is being constantly changed. When a small group of Russian journalists were allowed to visit the secret helicopter base, they were flown in blindfolded. The helicopter pilots they interviewed hid their faces behind the sun visors of their flight helmets.

Kamov Ka-50 attack helicopters operate in conjunction with Mi-24 “Krokodil” assault helicopters and a new version of the Ka-30 naval anti-ship helicopter equipped with an advanced air-to-surface radar system “Oka.” The Ka-50 helicopters are armed primarily with up to 80 S-8 80-mm unguided rockets and 12 “Vikhr-M” (AT-12) laser-guided air-to-surface anti-tank missiles (ATGMs). The “Black Sharks” are also equipped with the advanced “Shkval” Automatic Sighting System ensuring target detection and identification, precise guidance of the “Vikhr-M” ATGMs and use of the 30-mm 2A42 cannon, identical to the one carried by the BMP-2 armored personnel carrier.

The Ka-50 can carry up to 2,000 kg of weapons on four moving underwing pylons in addition to the internal high-speed cannon. The supersonic “Vikhr-M” missile in conjunction with the “Shkval” sighting system allows the Ka-50 to engage camouflaged reinforced targets from up to 10 km away: well outside the reach of any type of air-to-surface missile available to the Chechen rebels.

The “Vikhr-M” missile can penetrate of up to 900 mm of explosive reactive armor from the maximum launch distance of 10 km, which makes it the most deadly anti-tank missile in service around the world. This remarkable missile can also engage aircraft flying at speeds of up to 800 km/h. Even though the Ka-50 is capable of firing dedicated air-to-air missiles, the air-to-air capability of the “Vikhr-M” allows to maximize the efficiency of the available maximum 2,000-kg weapons load.

On January 9, 2001, a Ka-50 and an Mi-24 engaged a well-camouflaged rebel ammo storage facility not far from the town of Komsomolskoye. Despite the very limited room for maneuvering due to nearby mountains, the Ka-50 was able to dive on the target at a very steep angle and fire a salvo of S-8 rockets, completely destroying the ammunition dump. The Mi-24 destroyed a nearby observation tower also with unguided rockets.

A flight of Ka-50s and support helicopters detected a camouflaged rebel base to the south of Centoroy on February 6. The base was built around two reinforced buildings and appeared to be heavily defended. A decision was made engage the target with guided missiles. Two “Vikhr-M” laser-guided missiles were launched from a distance of three kilometers, completely destroying the two reinforced structures. The entire base was demolished by the attacking helicopters in a single pass.

On February 14 a helicopter strike group consisting of several Ka-50s and support helicopters was on a “free hunt” mission in the area of Duba-Yurt and Khatuni. In low-visibility conditions the helicopters engaged and completely destroyed eight targets using guided and unguided munitions, as well as the automatic sighting system.

The Ka-50 “Black Shark” earned a good reputation not only among its pilots, but also among the Mi-24 pilots, who were amazed by the Ka-50’s agility. The “Shkval” sighting system permits the Ka-50 to execute intensive air-defense-evasion maneuvers following the launch of missiles, without losing the target lock. Frequently, pilots of the escorting Mi-24 assault helicopters lost the sight of the Ka-50s and were searching for them in the wrong part of the sky.

So far too few Ka-50s are deployed in Chechnya to have any significant impact on the situation in the province. While the combat role of the Ka-50 in Chechnya is still very low, the psychological impact of these fast black helicopters on the morale of the remaining Chechen rebels is immense. The rebels got used to the heavily armed and armored Mi-24s, with their undisputed strengths but also significant drawbacks. The Ka-50 provides the Russian army aviation with an ability to engage heavily-defended enemy positions from a safe distance and with high precision.

Successful deployment of Ka-50s in Chechnya is a significant victory for the Kamov Design Bureau. The “Black Shark” now has at least one undisputed advantage over its archrival for the domestic attack helicopter market – the Mil Mi-28. Achievements of the Ka-50 in Chechnya will also improve Kamov’s chances on the international arena as well. Already, South Korea expressed interest in purchasing a number of Ka-50s for its armed forces. Other potential customers include China and India. Greece and Sweden are considering purchasing the Ka-50 as well.
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and that in plain words mean that its high time that Europe developed a counter so as to shoot down the GPS constellation, and that only will gaurantee against a strike from the US on Galileo …. so its time europe though some better means

just only that much info ….. so the a/c that u went inside was not any operating one? .. oh i though u had sneaked into one of the operational one for which u got that ride in UAZ ..lol

Nitin,

also do not forget to mention as to the forced scaling back off the experience that IN gained during the Charlie lease, and it was the backboneless Indian Gov and another Baffoon that ruled Russia that made sure that IN could not have it any longer

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k guys, now the kind of hump back that I see in the amur is like the Severodvinsk Class (and as such, I believ ATV or an ‘MKI’ for Indian Navy) . In the pictures below u can see the 12 VLS or 12 Silos thats shown in the it. The pic shows the 4 silos and it has to be in a 3 row config with 4 each as the Severodvinsk class is reported to have 12 silos for launching missiles vertically. From the side profile a small hump can also be made out, but not anywhere near to what a Delta class have. Now thats how i hope the Brahmos Amur complex will look like on the Amur with a VL capablity. Also i dont think a config like what the naval forces described or visualised is gonna get in, as that simply is not the way and hopefully they represented it in the wrong way.

here are some pictures of the Severodvinsk class with the first one an older one and the other a newer graphical representation of the sub though i guess its not official (?). To put a bit more on the S’insk class the two representation has huge difference the way things have changed and things are a bit more clearer in the newer and coz of that angled profile of second picture.

firstly I’d like to say that it seems like its made up of 11 sections or module (as can be made out from the newer second picture, though I may be wrong) so taking that same one to the older picture , u guys can see –

In the first one the subs main propulsion unit is placed in the second last section and the reactor module after the Silo section .Where as, in the newer one u will get to see the propulsion section being pushed forward and the reactor section/module being next to the Silo section. I think this has been done considering the c.g of the sub and for obvious better handling. Seems like it has been done to concentrate all the mass and heavy units towards a central sectional length, freeing the ends for crew accomodation or shifting them from the earlier position to the second last section. Maybe this change over makes the sub to dive and surface faster as the ballast tanks pumping in & out will be more effective with reduced work for that ‘imbalance’ needed to get the subs nose point upward or downward and so does the duty of the sails, though I cud be wrong.

Its also noticable that the torpedo room seems like have been shifted to the upper deck from the middle section in the newer picture.

Oh k comng back to the Amur, unlike the Severodvinsk class it has the option of either a damn unmatched firepower for an SSK with a ‘regular’ submerged endurance or with the ‘standard’ arsenal with a longer submerged endurance. And thats from what Indian Navy – when going-in for the Amur – will have to choose from. And I am pretty sure if that happens, it would be a mix of these two ….. as u can see from pictures down below, the AIP integrated Amurs (blanked out section) module will have to be replaced and a section comparable to that would be inserted – after the conning tower – where the Silos would be based, as speculated earlier 8 silos would be integrated in that section.

But I’d have loved to see these both happening , which seems unlikely as that would only increase the length and displacement and hence also decrease the snorkelling and submerged speed. But then, don’t u guys think it would indeed be good even though at the cost a some 2-3 knots? …coz that gives u a submerged endurance of nearly 50 days with 8 (speculated earlier) land attack or anti-ship arsenal w/o giving any hint of u laying dormant for the right time to ambush.

now if that becomes a reality then the above mentioned one of a two-config Amur – a pure AIP equipped SSK (with a min 4 missiles fired through TT) for that extended period of duty; another one having a bit more heavier disp with 8 Silos loaded with Land-attack or Anti-ship missiles for that added firepower and then finally another one having 2 modules added to the basic Amur-1650 with one for AIP and the other one for Silos ….. and this will possiblity take the number of members of the Amur family to 7 or 8. Which will make the Amur1650/1850 designation for the last two member invalid coz of its increased displacement and firepower for the first and an increased disp, length and of course, increased firepower for the second.