Scorpion89OK Rob.
I am not taking sides. I want to see the aircraft stay in canada and be restored as it is restorable despite media comments to the contrary. I personally have not seen the aircraft since it left the museum but when I last saw it it looked in fairley good shape with the engines etc sitting close by.
Can I ask a favour?
How about posting your questions you need answers for one after the other as clear as you can and let’s see if Richard,myself or others can get some answers for you.. ?
When you bring the b17 and b29 into it it just muddies the water so to speak and then things get confusing..
Hope this helps.Edit..
This is how she looked when I last saw her in the 1990’s, yes it really looks like a pile of rotting bits.. NOT!
Fair enough will do that next, but I would like to clear one thing up I could care less who or where the planes go as I have said all along I want what is the best for the airframes, and if it means sellingone to restore another then so be it.
As for the 17 and 29 Peter did you read how I put it I was trying to show that if it was another type of aircraft say the two mention wouldn’t their be just as much fire storm over them also, and if I was the person who was leading the fight to stop the sell wouldn’t the same type of question be ask of me. Wasn’t trying to Muddy the Water per say was just trying to give an example.
Thanks for the photos in the third one it appears that the lower section of the nose has already started some form of Delamination mind you its hard to really tell from the photo but at least two of the panels seem to show early signs of the glue dry rot and slight warping. Nothing that can’t be fixed.
Scorpion89Rob,
If you are set on turning this thread back into an assault on Richard then Ime scrapping it. I had enough of it on the last thread. Why do you insist on bringing up other aircraft that have bog all to do with the mosquito situation? As for it sitting in a damp moldy building, Have you seen the building? Have you been inside? No I thought not. I have seen the building and have been told by people that were there on the day she was moved indoors and it is a dry secure building that will do no harm to either airframes.
Rant over..
Peter,
Why do you insist on taking side on this then huh, if this was something other then the Mossie lets say a B-17 or a B-29 in a similar case would you not be asking the same question and not getting any answer or better yet double talk wouldn’t you feel the same way. Go back and re-read the original Mossie thread before you come out attacking me.
In that thread I ask what type of storage building it was and if it had proper Venting /Heating for storage for wooden airframes. I also ask Richard along with a few other folks including you to see some photos of the airframes.
Since Richard was the heart of the atack against the selling of the Mossie and was one of the original founders I think the question that I ask are relitive including the three airframes that where sold it goes to the heart of the problem why is alright to sell off some airframes and this one it isn’t.
All I ask if he is going to lead the attack against the selling of the airframes then he should at least gives us proof that they are in better coundition then what is being reported. To put it into another view when I first started my Rant and Attacking of the United States Naval History Center and was ask
to show the various rules and codes that they were breaking and how. I went back and post in detail each item. I was attacked by allot of different folks over the subject till I produced the proof.
So with that in mind maybe you should take off your Canadian Blinders and see that these are legiment question that I have asked and should be answer. Because till someone produce a photo of the airframes then its really he said/he said.
Scrap the thread if you must, but then it would look like your trying to be every bias about stuff.
Scorpion89Scorpion,
No point in arguing with Richard over this one – he is just highlighting double standards from the museum.
Looks to me like the museum needs a new management team who can think out of the (cardboard) box.
Bruce
Ahh maybe Bruce but I just got done re-reading the old thread and he was the person leading the charge to stop the sell. And by what he put up in his last post he is making his oppoin felt.
So with that in mind Richard I do have a few question that you seem to have not answer from the first thread, You stated that you were part of the folks who help start this Museum and I ask why your not part of it anymore you still haven’t answer that question also I ask along with a few others to see photos of both the Mossie and Hurrie, that question was even address by you. So I’m now asking lets see some recent photos of the aircraft to finally put to bed the actual coundition of said airframes or is there more to the story
Also I ask about the sale of the Stingbag and the other Hurrie and you said it had no barring on this airframe well I say it does and you have still haven’t explain why the three other airframe were sold and still haven’t Id the third airframe.
Also you stated that you were/are still part of the museum so I ask again why hasn’t any work been done on either airframe and why haven’t you or anyone else who is connected with the museum try to secure some sort of funding.
Personally I don’t think you guys are going to do anything I think the airframes will sit in the Damp Stone Building and Mold more. Like to see you prove me wrong.
Oh and please do me a favor and don’t skate or try to turn the question around just answer them for once.:confused:
Scorpion89Lowe and others keep claiming the Mosquito is but a pile of deteriorating scrap unworthy of restoration with no one in country having the capability to do so, while simultaneously entertaining a $1.5M offer for their pile of scrap. Can’t really have it both ways can you?
cheers,
r.
Really now Richard I can give you off the top of my head quite a number of airframes that are/where in the basic same coundition and were sold for what you and I would consider crazy prices but were sold.
As for the 1.5 Million for a pile of scrap hmm then I guess the 2 million that Kermit is asking for his spare B-29 Pile of scrap is wrong also. oh and don’t try to turn this around saying two different types of airframes because it won’t float.
Scorpion89I personally investigated the disappearance of the first two Boeing airplanes ever built. They were both seaplanes that were sent to New Zealand and never left. In my opinion, they were crated up and buried in the tunnels beneath today’s Hauraki Gulf Maritime Park at North Head, Auckland, about 1939. As New Zealand prepared their coastal defenses against the coming war, they set gun emplacements along Auckland Harbour and built tunnels beneath to service such guns. In these tunnels I believe the planes were preserved. The problem today is to convince the NZ government to allow someone to open up a tunnel and investigate. That was not allowed during my search in 1990. Perhaps someone with some influence in NZ can gain access to search these tunnels. If you indeed can gain access, I recommend you find a tunnel entry from the southwest side somewhere along Jubilee Avenue. If you find the planes, would you please invite me to come see them. Thanks. Steve McDonald
Steve,
May I suggest you send a letter to the head of the NZ Heritage and tell them about it and remind them that its their “Duty” to check into these things;)
Scorpion89I’m still staggered nobody has pulled up the Fw58 Weihe thats at the bottom of a deep fresh water lake in France, still has it’s markings on its Fabric!
Their was attempt to recover it but the French Enviro Laws got in the way.:rolleyes:
Scorpion89Mondariz – There are no examples of F84G’s in the U.K despite the prominent role they had with the USAF in the U.K . I would dearly like to bring the Randers machine to the U.K for museum display. If either yourself or Kenneth could help in any way I would be delighted for the help.
David,
If your really looking for a F84 Swept Wing and have a major English Museum that has connections with the RAF then may I suggest you talk tot hem about seeing if they can work out some sort of trade with the US Navy.
At NAS China Lake their are around a dozen swept wing 84 on the Cold Range and at least two straight wings out their.
If your interested I could help you with point of contact here in the States.
Scorpion89Just go over to Wixs put up an question for Chuck Gardnier and let him tell you all about it since he is one of the T-6 Pilots.
Scorpion89..
Wikipedia mentions 3 other (besides FiFi) B-29 in restoration projects, does anyone know anything about them (well, one is Doc)?
There is more then three that can be returned to flight,
Besides the three already mention there are the following tow,
44-84084 B-29B owned by Kermit Weeks and for sale its located in open dry storage in Borrengo Springs Calf.
44-83905 KB-29P located in a gravel pit at Eielson AFB this a stripped airframe but there is enough part out their to rebuild it.
Also their is allot to of parts out there that could be used to build up one or two more complete airframes
Scorpion89Im not familiar with US aviation law and procedures. Do you not have to have an airworthy aircraft to get a reg?
Then at least it was considered airworthy in 1987.
I checked the N reg and N29KW is still valid.
However here is “Fertile Myrtle”. It might be a “whole” aircraft, but its stored in sections in various places.
No you don’t have to have an airworthy aircraft to get a N#. As for Fertile Myrtle when kermit purchase it he was going to fly it back to Miami but do to allot of reason he decide to have it taken apart and moved by Worldwide Aircraft Recovery Ltd.
Scorpion89Flicking through one of the magazines for this month (Aeroplane), I noticed that a P51D and an un-specified model of P40 have been added to the Dutch register. The P51 is PH-PLI and the P40 is PH-PXL, both registered to the same person. Can anyone shed any light on the identities and current status of these two?
Ant I think these are the two that are going to France over on Wixs there was a thread a few weeks back if you type in P-40 going to France you should find the thread.
Scorpion89What i have heard is:
1. Coorporate restructure in Boeing, left the project without a hangar.
Correct
2. One of the primary owners died. Estate is being settled, and maybe the recievers don’t really care too much for warbirds (just a guess).
Yes but that not all of the story but I really can’t go into the whole thing because of certain legal items that are still being work out.
3. They failed to locate outside sponsors.
They really never had an outside sponsor other then Mr. Tallichet who was the man money person, all Boeing did was provide them a Hanger to work on it since at the tie it wasn’t being used that much.
4. They were unable to locate a suitable airport for the project. Hangar space with full workshop facilities at an airport/appron/hangar that can take the weight of B-29 operations are not cheap.
Correct there isn’t much space at the airport and the hangers that are there are already taken
It was rebuild to fly, and I really hope all the work put into “Doc” are not wasted. Those guys must have busted their A*** to get where they are now. Leaving it too long to continue, and they will have to do a part of it over again.
Yes it si going to be rebuild to flying, but all work has stop and the work that has been done already is showing signs that it will need to be redone do tot he weather. Its a shame that this has happen. I personally hope that it is sold by what I understand there have been folks who have ask about it who have the ways and means to rebuild her.
Scorpion89I dont think that I have seen this forum rally against an child like this in quite a long time. Good show everybody and well done for insuring common sense wins the day.
Except one thing Sealord I work as a Lobbiest on the Hill and I see what goes on everyday its part of my job so maybe folks you might want to rethink some crap alright because the Made in the USA thing has been come for a very long time.
Oh and before someone ask what type of Lobby I do I’ll make it simple I and three other folks have been for the past two years been working with Congress to have the US Navy Ownership rules on aircraft over turned, for the record this is has lead to some items being allowed to be recovered IE stuff on Private Land but the fight is far from over, We plan on after the submitting a report on how and why the Naval History Center and the Navy Dept. are in direct violation of the very act they claim to use to uphold ownership on.
As for this tanker well I had a very powerful Sen. tell me today that happens to sit on the Military Oversite Committee that they plan on freezing the funds.
But then again you armchair folks seem to know more about what goes on in DC then I do right.
Scorpion89My guess is twelve engines, any advance on that?
Any guesses on the two planes in the background?:D
Yea the Biplane looks to be a PO-2 while the Monoplane looks to be I-16
Scorpion89So let me sum up the US pitch at this stage then. Airbus was built with billions in subsidies from the French and the German governments. The said governments will now hand the company to Russia. Mind you, I suppose that if you can have your people believe the pitch that Saddam was an actual threat, you may as well try and sell them that sort of nonsense.
First off its no big secrete that Russia wants a larger stake in Airbus which has allot of folks on the Hill not to happy about the Tanker Deal or have you been missing the last year or so on how the Cold War has sort of started to heat back up with us and the Russians guess you missed the Bear Flights then right. As for the last part lets not go their because by your statement it shows you don’t care to much for Mr. Bush.
Well, why not, that would mean scrapping off the F-35 project as it stands to start with. It would also mean that you cannot procure any Boeing airframe as of today and for the foreseeable future. Please go ahead, make my day.
Sorry but the F-35 is build in the United States designed in the United States and has no overseas parts in it.
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