Scorpion82WOW, so you think they have nearly caught up with a 30 yr old plane, its a dam shame they have moved on to 5g isnt it
30 years old plane with recent technology. There is the difference, avionics can be upgraded, new weapons can be integrated, but changing the airframe would be a major undertaking. It’s not like F-15s 30 years ago featured AESA radars, IRST, FDL, JHMCS, AIM-9X & AIM-120C7 is it?
Scorpion82Raytheon đ
@+, Arka
May I ask for a direct link/source from Raytheon where the range of the AMRAAM is stated? I’ve never seen such reference. All range claims come from somewhere else. And according the data widely spreaded max range of the A-C4 is 75 km, C5 105 km, C7 ~136 km and D up to 180 km.
Scorpion82210km+… what a joke… Well informed (industry, not wikipedia) source give the C7 to 80~90km (more than the mica, yes, clearly, but not “double”) and D(C8) to 120km.
@+, Arka
And those industry sources are?
Scorpion82Scorpion82 & toan, it could be that it’s old news , but why now, EF site felt obliged to post it ?????? It’s just a desperate step to shadow the UAE failure.
Who knows, the blog wasn’t overly active for some time and it might be that they have just now gathered additional details or learned about it at all. Officially Eurofighter hasn’t commented on the ATLC thing at all and the blog is known for being quite “fanboyish”. They usually make tall marketing claims and report on the positive things surrounding the programme, often enough just stories published somewhere else.
Scorpion82Hello,
can you provide me some source for this. I´m not doubting what you say, but I am Italian and lived in Italy till 2007 and never found out this on official publications or italian aviation magazines.
The Italian Air Force doesn´t have any official designation system for its aircraft and they usually retain the manufacturer´s designation or the name given by the USAF in case of aircraft purchased from the US.
F-2000, as opposed to EF-2000, is not the manufacturer´s designation, nor any other Air Force´s so I am surprised that the AMI has chosen this.Ciao
Stefano
I have read it in a lot of magazines and if you google “aeronautica militare+F-2000” you’ll get a lot of hits mostly in italian language, though I notice that the official AMI website still refers to it as the Eurofighter 2000 Typhoon.
Scorpion82Guys, let’s get serious…The exercise in Canaries was in March 2009 !
At that time, it seems that it wasn’t a big deal. It could be that the F 15 C were in the red team, so they could not use the JHMCS/9X combo. Or as in Cope India 2004 they used a “notional” missile (it was BVR there, but it could also apply to WVR missiles) that had a limited off boresight angle. In that case all came down to maneuvrability, so no surprise that EF had an upper hand.
But the very fact that they un-digged a story that it passed unnoticed then, say a lot about how serious was the Al Dahfra defeat for EF. I was never a Rafale fan, but this “story” show a desperate try from EF to show that their bird is not so crappy after all…
The event has been posted on before (15th december), as it was already reported in the AFM january issue which was published in early december. Posters who read that article posted this info, but it didn’t get much attention, probabley because there were no handy links available, allowing people to check out the source them self. What the Eurofighter official web blog is posting is nothing else than the confirmation of what that AFM author learned and reported on before. To make it short, this info was known before, but missed by most people and it didn’t surface after the ATLC story emerged, but before it.
Scorpion82I doubt that the German public knows about the Hawker Typhoon that devastated nazi Panzer divisions in France in 1944/45.
I guess the name Eurofighter stuck to the thing because the Luftwaffe, like the Italian Air Force (AMI) doesn´t have an official designation system like the RAF or the Ejercito de l´Aire.
In Italy they are called EF-2000 or Eurofighter, though the official name is Tifone. Curiously, the Italian examples sport the name Typhoon and the relevant simbol on the vertical tailplane. I´m not sure if it´s only on the first batch delivered of if new examples get it too.
Official designation of the AMI is F-2000 as I have stated above. Typhoon is painted on the fins and the Italians sometimes refer to them as Tifone (hope that’s the corrrect spelling), but the official designation is F-2000A for single seaters and F-2000B for twin seaters.
Scorpion82Hope this is the correct thread to ask. Mods, otherwise please move.
The Luftwaffe calls its new toy Eurofighter, EF2000 or just ‘Eufi’.
We know that RAF uses Typhoon but I wonder what the other users call their jets. Media may often speaks of Italian and Spanish Typhoons but are they really called like that overthere?Not to forget Austria and Saudi Arabia.
Guess, the RAF designation Typhoon is more in the line of “Tornado” than relating back to the WW.2 RAF fighter wearing the same name?
A friend asked me about these names and I didn’t have a clue either why the Luftwaffe never used ‘Typhun’ or similiar.
Typhoon was selected for export in the first place and just later adopted by the RAF. Saudi aircraft are called Typhoon as well (FGR.50).
Italians call their aircraft F-2000 and sometimes Tiffone.
Spanish have the internal designation C.16 & CE.16, but still refer to it as the EF2000.
Luftwaffe calls it Eurofighter, Eufi is more a kind of unofficial designation, Efchen is also sometimes used.
Austrians officially call it EF-2000.
Btw. There is a Typhoon News thread you could use for such questions as well.
Hope that helps.
Scorpion82That would depend on which F-15 variant the Typhoon faced, and how it was armed. An AESA equipped F-15 w/ JHMCS/9x/120C7/D wouldn’t be the easiest prey.
These F-15Cs from the 493rd are equipped with APG-63(V1), FDL, JHMCS and AIM-9X. Not that the radar would matter much in such a WVR engagment. The question is wether they were using the AIM-9X+JHMCS combo or wether they weer simulating/using something else. If those F-15s had no restrictions it would be quite an achievement. If they were limited to guns the results would be certainly less impressive, depends on what the Typhoons were using themself.
Might be worth noting that these results were already posted weeks ago, as it was reported in the January (?) issue of AFM, but with less details.
Scorpion82I think it is time for American yelling:
“Such kind of training exercise is totally not a big deal and entirely unrepresentative.”
“Show me the ROE !!! I bet it must be extremely unfair to the Eagles’ side!!!”
http://www.livemint.com/2009/08/10231950/8216We-will-shift-workload.html?pg=2
Bernhard Gerwert, CEO of military air systems, EADS Defence and Security:
“Looking at the official reports of the exercises that have been done by the four European air forces in exercises with other air forces, in all cases that I know in the last two years, the Eurofighter was the winner. All other aircraft were the losers. They beat everything.”
================================================== ================================================== ================================================== ==================================
Once, again, when Typhoon wins, the Typhoon’s supporters declare:
“This is because Typhoon is a much superior and formidable fighter compared with any fighter other than F-22A today.”
“The Eurofighter is the winner. All other aircraft are the losers.”And when Typhoon lose, Typhoon’s supporters say:
“The RoE may be unfair for Typhoon.”
“The training results is not a big deal and entirely unrepresentative.”How fair and justifying you are……..
You seem to miss the critical bits from Sintra and Jacko here. Let alone that you quote the Eurofighter press department. :rolleyes:
Of course those results look odd for a WVR exercise and the comments of the “supporters” look critical and not what you try to make them look like.
Scorpion82Chief of the Bulgarian Air Force has flown the Typhoon.
Major General Konstantin Popov, Head of the Bulgarian Air Forces training staff, did a training flight with the âEurofighter Typhoon F- 2000Bâ at an Italian air base in Grosseto recently as reported by the Bulgarian Air Force staff to the national newspaper âBalgarska Armiaâ.
Major General Popov was hosted by General Maurizio Lodovisi, Chief of the Italian Air Command. Both of them focused on the military cooperation between the two States. Special attention was paid to the strengthening of cooperation between the two Nations, on developing strategies for further operational tasks with the Italian Air Force, as well as on greater opportunities using new and modern Eurofighter flight technology.
During Major General Popovsâ flight with the Eurofighter Typhoon, the aircraft was used to its full capacity. Manoeuvres such as âone on oneâ and âtwo against twoâ as well as circle flights of 75 minute duration were accomplished successfully.
Popov pointed out, that for the Bulgarian Air Force it is very important to cooperate with leading countries like Italy. Popov stressed how the unique Bulgarian military history will serve as an opportunity to enable proactive cooperation with NATO partners in the future.
Isn’t Bulgaria looking for a MiG-29 replacement?
Scorpion82So they’re bragging about beating an aircraft that entered service 35 years ago? Um,…wow? :rolleyes: That’d be like bragging that the F-15 stomped all over a flight of Me 262s. Do it against F-22s and I’ll be impressed. :diablo:
Oh I thought that the Typhoon is nothing else than an overly expensive teen and which hasn’t to offer anything what teens weren’t able to offer 20+ years ago. :-p
Scorpion82The aircraft is still at Komsomolsk…
Scorpion82LOL, Scorpion.
There are more links providing the same figure.
Go dig for yourself. I mean, it’s a known fact, at least for those a bit older than you…It’s rather annoying to have a conversation in this manner…If you don’t trust it fine. Find a counter argument to settle that…
I bet you also didn’t know that Mig31 pilots wore radiation meters in their flying suits, due the immense power of N007 radar and so each crew was limited to monthly/yearly radiation allowance and therefore limited in flight hours by radar.
Ok here N010 Zhuk 5 kW:
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-681192/Got-you-covered.html
Zaslon 2,5 kW:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=153.0
N-035 Irbis (20 kW):
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:obH9XvAD0iYJ:www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D622.0%3Bwap2+NIIP+N011M+Bars%2BkW&cd=5&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-a
So would you mind explaining us how a 1960s radar provides 600 kW, whereas much newer radars are 10th or even 100th times weaker? Doesn’t make sense, does it?
Scorpion82Yes, 600kW.
Why do you think it was only a Mig25 that scored a kill against F18? It only had a radar powerful enough to burn through US’ ECM screen.
I’m not sure about Zaslon of Mig31, but I think it had (have?) about 1mW output power.
How else you think it would be able to discern a target at ~400km?
Now, if you take those radars and stick today’s super-fine filters and signal processing circuits, you’ll get literally a sh1tload of kilometers range.Anyway, the point is you can stick whatever TWT on passive array and if you manage to cool it, you get unprecedented performances, rangewise. AESA won’t ever come nowhere near PSA in that sense.
Hmm a Wiki link, I don’t think it’s correct. More likley 6 kW and the Russians claim a 400 km detection range vs 3 m² target with a 20 kW peak power radar (Irbis). Average peak power of modern fighter radars is somewhere between 10 and 20 kW.
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