That 90 % claim is made by Mig boss , I took a conservative figure of 50 % which still is unbeatable.
The dont have set up BRD since its established for IAF nor do they have to setup RD-33 overhaul facility since its there , training wise they can synergise with IAF , so are the established facility for spares. These facility takes billions of dollars and there is 1 and half decade of experience which is priceless.
And I even doubt your conseratvie figure given the huge differences between the original MiG-29 and the MiG-35. Airframe, FCS, systems, avionics, cockpit etc. all this is different, hence the entire aircraft. This requires the purchase of new equipment to support all this.
And thats a big thing to start with if IAF is serious about rationalisation of its assets , need less to mention the Ground Infrastructure , Weapons and Logistics similarity , Maintenance/BRD Facility for Aircraft & Engine , similar facility built over 1 and half decades to operate this type from most airbases including FAB.
The IAF and IN can share and pool in these resources making is a far cheaper and available aircraft to operate when needed , the Mig-29K operation cost have been reduced by half compared to the Mig-29 that IAF operates
If it takes time and money to customize it so be it , this effort will help us during the long run , the IAF had put this urgent needs since the end of Kargil war , so there is no urgent need.
The point is what do we need a advanced aircraft with loads of black boxes and some source code with many billion dollar spent in initial purchase and far more billion $ developing the entire ground infrastructure and logistics , weapons and the tail.
Or an aircraft where we can integrate maximum of Indian developed system , the least amount of black box and entire source code available and customise it according to our needs as and how we need with no restrictions.
And no need to spend the billion plus on Ground infra and other facility , and facility that can be shared with sister service the IN
If we want to integrate Tejas Mk2 Avionics , System and Weapons suite to the maximum possible and keep it evolving with Tejas , then Mig-35 represents the best bet in medium and long run
Not true , Mig itself has mentioned that one of the USP of Mig-35 is 90 % and above commonality , even if it is at a pessimistic 50 % common with Mig-29 and 29K its well worth , there is no need to build any new billion dollar ground infra and new logistics , spares supply , Mig-35 is a cost effective plug and play solution for IAF.
Sorry but that doesn’t hold water and I don’t believe a second that there is anything like 90% or not even 50% commonality between the MiG-29B and the MiG-35. And setting up the infrastructure is still required, regardless of the IN operating the K or not. Have IN and IAF ever shared their resources in that direction?
And the urgent need is stronger than before as the age of those fighters to be replaced is showing more than ever before. Wait another few years and you’ll see real cuts in numbers of aircraft and squadrons.
You complain about the VS threads but suggest topics like “which is the best airforce in the middle east” or “how do the new trainers compare”?
When it comes to the MiG-35 we have to keep some facts in mind.
1.) The MiG-35 is a paper plane right now, as a representive prototype has yet to be flown. There is a certain degree of commonality with the MiG-29K/KUB such as FCS, engines, cockpit, basic systems and even some airframe commonalities, but that’s it.
2.) The avionics suite of the MiG-35 has yet to be finalised and that fact alone allows you no definitive conclusions, albeit you can make assumptions and you can compare the proposed systems. RAC MiG has fitted several prototype devices of mission equipment, but this has yet to be fully developed and proven that it lives up to the expectations. One advantage of the MiG offer is that the avionics can be customised, that might interest the IAF but has its drawbacks as well. Developing a customised avionics suite takes time and costs money and by that includes certain risks. Most other competors come up with developed and integrated solutions which is far less risky, albeit it will limit the development opportunities at least at the beginning. As I understand the IAFs urgent need for a new aircraft, can they afford to wait even longer than they have already done at the risk of even further delays?
3.) The so called commonality with the MiG-29 as an argument is somewhat incorrect as the MiG-35 is an almost new aircraft which shares almost nothing with the baseline model of the MiG-29 as it is operated nowadays. So while there are the links between RAC MiG and the IAF in place, those MiG-29s (even upgraded ones) won’t share much with the MiG-35 and that means you still have to establish all the support structure, additional spares etc.
What Shiv offers is inside view on the MoDs and IAF’s view of thinking. I think most of the forumers know the obvious strengths and weaknesses of each platform.
I know, I just predicted what I think will be the strong and weak points in the upcoming reviews.
i believe it’s lower than the EF and Rafale
Doesn’t change the fact that it is expensive and probabley more so than the Gripen, F-16 or MiG-35.
unless ‘growth potential’ is a code word for ‘immature’, i don’t see where it has more growth potential than the other twin competitors
Did I say the other don’t have growth potential?
pretty sure all competitors can say that
Well for some competors certain technologies are more immature and not enough funded yet.
The reviews we have seen so far were quite predictive and basically contain nothing we haven’t seen/discussed before. So here are my predictions for the remaining 3 MMRCA contenders.
F/A-18:
strength:
– Advanced and mature design
– Flexibility
– Potential strategical tries with the US
– EA-18G “Lite”
Weaknesses:
– High costs
– Partitial overlapping with the Su-30MKI
– Not that impressive (flight) performance
– US restrictions
Rafale:
Strength:
– Advanced design with a lot of growth potential
– New technologies already under development
– Could share some logistics and weapons with the M2k (especially if the upgrade bores fruites)
– Technology transfer
Weaknesses:
– France won’t offer much benefits for poitical relations
– No foreign customer found so far
– Expensive
Typhoon:
Strength:
– Advanced design with great growth potential
– very performant fighter
– Stronger strategical partnerships due the multinational character
– Industrial benefits through partnership in the EF GmbH
Weaknesses:
– Partitially immature
– Uncertainities over future development
– Expensive
just my 2 ct
cheers
[I] So, if F22 at M1.5 launches an AMRAAM, it’ll have significantly increased range against a 40,000ft flying target, indeed. However, if the same F22 launches against a target at 500ft, the range could get reduced to as much as 1/3, meaning a 100km figure would go down to 30km figure. At that range F22 becomes visible and it complicates escape window (and survivability) exponentially and then there are still 4 enemies, to solve.
If the missile is lofted and just decends during the terminal phase I see no reason why the range would reduce by 30%. While air density is higher at low heights increasing drag, lift is also better at that altitudes and it should be easier for a missile to maintain energy while decending than keeping in level flight or even climbing to the target.
Weren’t improved LO and SATCOM supposed to be potential batch 5 (F4?) features?
Edit:
Thanks for the image Kovy. 9 g turns shouldn’t be a problem to be sustained at such high speeds as the AoA remains relative low (13° in the HuD shot).
What tank? In this table, for the 250 Nmiles SC scenario, it states clearly internal fuel.
True the document speaks about internal fuel, but 8 and not 6 AAMs. No speed is mentioned there either just the range/endurance for a specific mission profile.
What the guy said was : “It is the most advanced fighter in the world”. If F 22> anything else, I can safely say F 22 > EF…:diablo:
Most advanced doesn’t mean the best:diablo: But enough with this childish games here I think no one really doubts that the F-22 on top when it comes to AA performance.
A s I said, I prefer to consider the oficial (declassified) documents from the EF offer. The official figure is 1.2M with internal fuel and 6 AAMs.
You forgot about the centreline drop tank for that figure and it is also very much a figure like “mach 1.5+” for the F-22. M 1.5 for the Typhoon is said to be clean under best conditions.
The inclined seat is just part of the concept, but no definitive solution to the problem. The side controls and limited travel stick help to reduce the arm pain often reported by pilots and allow him to remain control. Then there’re pneumatic anti-g trousers and I expect that a positive pressure mask is used as well. The F-16 has an equally inclined seat, yet in the early days a lot of Viper pilots suffered G-LOC and a lot of crashes were related to it, despite side controls and an inclined seat.
Is there any g-sustainment requirement for french Rafale pilots? Luftwaffe pilots which want to be selected for the Eurofighter for example have to be able to sustain at least 15 sec on 9 g.
Another factor which has to be taken into account is the speed of the aircraft, many 9g capable fighters can sustain 9g at high subsonic speeds without a lose in speed. It length just depends on the pilot here. Best turn rates and cycles are achieved at lower speeds however where the AoA builts up to a larger extend increasing drag and causing the lose of speed.
I’m not sure if this quote was the same British pilot, but it was something to the effect- The F-22 has as much advantage over the Typhoon, as the Typhoon has over F-15/16/18s, or something along those lines.
What you refer to is this unconfirmed report:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/modern/f-22-vs-12344-9.html#post351443
And they would pull 10.5g on air show ?
Who knows. Maybe they came to the conclusion (due structural testing) that just 8 g could ensure the intended airframe life cycle of 7000 h? Exceeding that limit from time to time might be acceptable, but not on a regulare base.
Gen. Jumper never said the EF > F22; OTOH the British pilot said clearly that F 22> EF. So, I guess we can trust both of them…:diablo:
Did the british pilot actually mention the Eurofighter? I have seen the video quite some time ago, but was of the impression that he did not mention the Eurofighter at all.
EF own official declarations mention nothing about the supposed 1.5M. So, let’s stick to the 1.2 M
You obviously missed Satorians post with the link.