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  • in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2288597
    topspeed
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    My advice? Skip the rockets and go for a more powerful turbofan engine. You can get get 25-50 kN of thrust out of a small turbofan such as the honeywell f125 used on the F-CK-1 fighter, the non afterburning version of which weighs 536 kg, which is about what your rocket engines would weigh together, without even accounting for the weight of the extra jet engine you added. Even still- when you take into account the weight of missiles, guns, avionics, fuel, airframe (especially one incorporating stealthy materials), landing gear, etc… you should probably even go for two of these to get any sort of meaningful performance.

    You need some sort of persistence for any air to air engagement. Rockets don’t have that and basically just add weight.

    You can’t take a folland gnat and strap any sort of meaningful payload on it- modern radar, armaments and avionics would weigh it down.

    The best you could do is something like this, I think:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDC_F-CK-1_Ching-kuo
    or
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas

    If you’re looking for stealth you would need need internal weapons. I would advise simply going for a reduced RCS rather than true stealth with semi-conformal carriage of weapons that are creatively hidden from most observing angles.

    You are quite right Erkokite !

    Originally this design was to have a small turbofan and fly with extremely high supercruise speed. Then some fact and figures started to show that a mickey mouse fan don’t go into supercruise. Then we also saw that a afterburning turbofan don’t fit into the room Gekko/Velociraptor had…and switched to really tiny fan with 2 rockets.

    F125 is the closest of all of these considered..it is not as big ( long ) as the one used in Hongdu L-15.

    There is also new developement in fan blades allowing a higher thrust with smaller engines..then perhaps a 30-40 kN engine will go supersonic in a clean and small design.

    rgds,

    juke

    PS: RpR….BK27 weighs only 220 lbs; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_BK-27

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2288617
    topspeed
    Participant

    papl doust !

    in reply to: 1000-2000 market for a cheap light fighter? #2288812
    topspeed
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    The Gnat was an excellent aircraft in its niche, but that niche was limited. It was never state of the art.

    An F-104 or MiG-21 or Mirage III or Lightning, properly flown, was immune to a Gnat. A Gnat couldn’t intercept high-flying Soviet bombers unless they were bombing targets close to its base, & it was visual combat only.

    It was a good second line aircraft, or for air forces which couldn’t afford state of the art.

    BTW, I’m old enough to remember seeing Gnats in service, & reading about them in combat in the news, not histories. I liked it a lot, & wished it had sold more. But I can’t take seriously the idea that it was state of the art.

    Okay I had a neighbour who had broken a haystack with a Gnat in flight. I think he hit the PIOS with it. He was all sweaty and had his parachute slided under his rear and he was all neck/head sideways flying it.

    Let’s say you needed to be real artist to fly it….better ?

    in reply to: F-22A Raptors to South Korea. #2288846
    topspeed
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    …and it was F-22s in South Korea…

    F-22 was developed while cold war was still on its peak.

    Korean peninsula is a troublesome place…brother agains brother divided by idealist reasons.

    I hope they could both see the light !

    in reply to: F-22A Raptors to South Korea. #2288865
    topspeed
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    Finland – one of the remotest provinces of Russia. Be thankful, communist plot 1917 made ​​it independent.
    USSR out of poverty has become a leading world power. And perhaps because of such “draconian measures” to remain independent.

    Right remotest province of Russia ! It is not that long ago…my granny was born in 1900. Let’s not take this conversation into any direction where we have to start saying I am sorry etc. Okay…have a good day in Nizhny !

    I think Lenin was partially to thank for Finns freedom as a free independent nation. Also it was the sign of the time too..national romantisism etc florished. It was not easy to gain independency for finns.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Nizhny_Novgorod_Kanavinsky_Bridge.JPG/800px-Nizhny_Novgorod_Kanavinsky_Bridge.JPG

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2288895
    topspeed
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    Three times faster?

    Hmmm, with a turning radius defined by tens of miles.
    Read sometime about how the S-71 handled at high mach.

    High mach means high altitude, which mean little atmosphere for controls.
    Your aircraft will not be doing high mach at low altitude and if it goes high it will be looking for a filling station or airstrip.

    The Me163 once its fuel was spent was a threat to no one. Your aircraft cannot carry enough fuel to be a threat except maybe on a one-way such as the 163s did.
    The smaller an aircraft the more susceptible it is to damage from cannon fire or a missile warhead.
    The small Mirage fighters in the Falklands suffered the same fate your aircraft would.
    Destroyed aircraft, dead pilot.

    The F-106 had extremely long legs at a high speed cruise, over three hours, yet at continuous Mach 2, twenty minutes and you had better find a tanker now.

    Let’s see yours has an eight minute throttled rocket?
    Does such a rocket exist?
    How much space does it take?
    How much does it weigh?
    Where will you put internal fuel for the jet?
    Where will you put weapons?
    External weapons greatly limit airspeed, internal weapons need sub-systems to lower and retrieve launch rails. System must be capable of expanding and contracting due to temp. changes with out binding or causing loose slap.
    Such systems are heavy.
    A cannon with enough rounds not to be just an after though will weigh around a 2,000 lbs. with cartridges.
    Where will you put it.

    Your reclining seat.
    Go sit in a chair that reclines as far as yours is supposed to and try to look over you shoulder.
    You cannot.
    The reclining pilots seat seems like a good idea until real world physics and how the human torso functions are considered.

    If you want to check into ejection capsules read up on the B-58 Hustler and F-111.
    They had capsules and an a airframe large enough to carry them.

    High speed ejection is easy to talk about but in the real world is a fifty-fifty proposition at best.
    An aircraft with high-speed system has to be large to handle the superstructure involved and as they found out with the F-106 system, they require more sub-systems which increases the possibility of a sub-system failure, and a dead pilot.

    A twenty millimeter cannon would chop your aircraft into small pieces in short order.
    F-86 pilots in Korea said that the Russian 37 mm cannon could destroy a Saber with one round and a Saber was larger and made out of metal more able to withstand cannon fire than your aircraft.
    Metals withstand projectiles not by being stiff like cast iron but by bending like mild steel.
    Modern alloys create, in a way, the solidity of iron with bending of soft alloys.
    Any metals that would break into pieces like a carbon fiber composite does, is worse than worthless.
    Metal is still heavy in the amount required to protect a pilot from the rear.

    If you do a net search you will find several instances of where an F-106 in an air to air collision lost the entire nose from the base of the windshield forward, yet the pilot safely landed the aircraft.

    What would happen if your aircraft suffered such an incident, beyond the probable funeral for the pilot?

    The U.S. Air Force had an official edict–SPEED IS LIFE.
    Another would be– Size capable of withstand heavy damage and continue to fly is life.

    Yours is a flying coffin.

    Thank you for your thorough answer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folland_Gnat

    I set the parameters on this in a finnish defence site. Little by little this has become bigger.

    It does not mean that a better far more capable aeroplane with a higher pricetag wouldn’t offer more capabilities.

    You are right about the rockets…they possibly burn just 2-3 minutes..I figure 250 kg per unit for them..preferably just 150-200 kg. They ought to be reusable with fast reloading. I have no idea if this is a good idea…but seems that a AB fitted turbofan burns too much gas and limits the air time drastically.

    This concept could cruise with turbofan neatly at 800-1100 km/h depending of the altitude and if a situation hits on…then boost is used to go to anywhere in 2-3 minutes..I mean up to 24 km at least.

    My concept totally rejects the possibility that this could be an underdog in any 1 to two situations. Therefore it is lite..and agile and fast + stealth…and thus small too.

    The mach 3 is not needed..the clim rate of 280 m/s is quite enuf..if you climb to meet someone at that rate in 45 degs angle you’ll be possibly goin just over mach.

    To intercept a hostile that goes mach 2.4 at 21 km you don’t need to go mach 2.5 yourself.

    Also this is very fragile easily..concealed missiles and fuel are all just centimeters of each others. BK27 is very lite cannon and with 150-200 rounds it don’t weigh over 1200 lbs.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LuHxwQiu2Lw/ToNLiDc_F1I/AAAAAAAAltI/rlV_rViHTQU/s400/mauser_bk27.gif

    in reply to: Time on afterburner #2288925
    topspeed
    Participant

    Taking those claimed figures for granted it would mean m2000 could run in theory some 8 minutes 40 seconds on full AB, using internal fuel alone. With external fuel, providing fuel tanks and pylons can take it (which they probably can’t) it would be able to run at full AB for almost 10 more minutes. In total over 18 and a half minutes.

    f18 would use up its interntal fuel in little under 10 minutes and use up its external fuel in 6 and a half minutes (for US hornets) and 8 and a half minutes for some of the export hornets). Total time some 16.5 mins to 18.5 mins.

    In real world it probably doesn’t work out that way…

    Right not only would you burn all the fuel, but also the engine.

    in reply to: 1000-2000 market for a cheap light fighter? #2288947
    topspeed
    Participant

    Question for anyone who might have some knowledge:

    Assuming an aiframe designed to reduce observability, how much does shaping and how much does stealth coating contribute to reduced observabilty?

    It would be interesting if there were a known relationship eg shaping contributed 60%-80% / coating 20%-40% to low RCS.

    I cannot answer that but I do know that SR-71 had about 1/10 observability than a F-14 Tomcat IRC.

    in reply to: Time on afterburner #2288960
    topspeed
    Participant

    you mean at max afterburner ? , btw are they burn the same amount of fuel at sea level than at high altitude or the same ( i mean at full afterburner )

    No the air is much less dense higher ( 0.31 at 10 km and 1.2 at sea level ).

    Higher their drag becomes lower and burn much less fuel on AB. Yes they were AB figures.

    in reply to: 1000-2000 market for a cheap light fighter? #2288962
    topspeed
    Participant

    It is interesting how some users of this forum, when short on arguments, seem to presume on other users’ work or competence and make laughable illations.

    This thread is not about a lighter version of a stealth fighter.

    Believe it or not, there is a number of military aviation services who are not going to invest all their cards on stealthness.

    Regards

    I beg your pardon..I was being too pushy and rude.

    :rolleyes:

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2288968
    topspeed
    Participant

    Those engine inlets won´t like much fuselage movement in relation to the airflow or high angles of attack.

    Ok..bear in mind the craft has very small turbofan that is operated under mach speed. It has at this stage 2 rocket engines for interception.

    There is a bit of a strakes that may direct more air at higher alphas than you can see right now from the pic.

    I see to it.

    in reply to: Time on afterburner #2289011
    topspeed
    Participant

    carry 4-6 air to air missiles with only internal fuel ( without external fuel tank) , how long can fighter fly with max afterburner
    Ex : f-4E , f-15E , su-35S , f-16E , f-35A ,f-18E , mig-35 , rafale , ef-2000 , mig-31M , f-22 , gripen
    P/S : CFTs counted as internal fuel
    btw how much fuel consume in after burner compared to dry thrust

    C model F-18 burns 495 kilos per minute at sea level. Mirage 2000 about 390 kg /min.

    in reply to: 1000-2000 market for a cheap light fighter? #2289015
    topspeed
    Participant

    No,
    I don’t agree with you. We are thinking to different aircraft. I’d rather agree with swerve, who wrote:

    If you have to confront J-20s you have to rely on something different then an affordable and light a/c.

    You don’t know how military works..they need their camoflage..that is a stealth design with stealth paint on it.

    This was state of the art fighter in its time; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folland_Gnat

    Affordable but also very leathal.

    in reply to: F-22A Raptors to South Korea. #2289023
    topspeed
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    Dear friend, tell me where was Finland in 1809-1917 years? 🙂

    Right here where it always was…you tell me when the danish rulers were executed by swedish new masters and when was the catholic monastery/fortress burnt to the ground here in country what swedes named Finland…and we always called Suomi ?

    Are trying to say that USSR wasn’t a terror state in 1929-1939 ? If so then maybe you ought to read the memoirs of kulag chief that published a book in Canada right after 1991. Solschenitzyn was telling us nice bedtime stories compared to that testimony.

    in reply to: 1000-2000 market for a cheap light fighter? #2289042
    topspeed
    Participant

    It seems that you consider stealthness a must, since you added to the hypothetical requirements stealth airframe and paint.

    Well, even though every modern designs aim to reduce the RCS, I don’t think that for an affordable aircraft very low observability could be a mandatory requirement.

    Come on Glendora…the plane is 1/10 of a Chengdu J-20..it has to be at least invisible to survive.

    All new stuff becomes cheaper at a very fast pace…I don’t mean the diamond paint job in B-2..something less expensive…and area isn’t big…same area than in a big one is enuf paint for 10 smaller ones.

Viewing 15 posts - 2,296 through 2,310 (of 2,657 total)