pppYea, it’s terrible how people dare to have a different opinion to you 😮
pppLook how the “friends” of Britain, the big leaders of the political parties in the EU parliament nod in agreement with the idea of screwing the UK over!
pppLook how the “friends” of Britain, the big leaders of the political parties in the EU parliament nod in agreement with the idea of screwing the UK over!
pppI love how the French papers are focusing on those saying it was a bad decision, but ignoring the massive congratulations from the Conservative MPs and support of the majority of the British people. Anyone would think the pro-integrationists were living in a separate world to the rest of us 😀
pppI love how the French papers are focusing on those saying it was a bad decision, but ignoring the massive congratulations from the Conservative MPs and support of the majority of the British people. Anyone would think the pro-integrationists were living in a separate world to the rest of us 😀
ppp@Creaking Door
It doesn’t matter what anyone here writes, you have already concluded that only pro-integrationists are capable of intelligent thought and that everyone else is motivated by bigoty. I personally do not really care about pointlessly discussing it, as it actually leads nowhere. I’d much rather have a referendum, that’s the best way to reach a conclusion. Political discussions are, in general, pretty pointless as it just decends into a “he who shouts loudest” contest.
ppp@Creaking Door
It doesn’t matter what anyone here writes, you have already concluded that only pro-integrationists are capable of intelligent thought and that everyone else is motivated by bigoty. I personally do not really care about pointlessly discussing it, as it actually leads nowhere. I’d much rather have a referendum, that’s the best way to reach a conclusion. Political discussions are, in general, pretty pointless as it just decends into a “he who shouts loudest” contest.
ppp@Creaking Door
“So if you are right how do you answer my question; why doesn’t any major UK party want us out of the EU?”
It’s too complex an answer as it varies from party to party, and from MP to MP! One reason true for all is that it’s simply easier to maintain the status quo, fewer consequences to fear. There’s also the vested interests to consider. These vested interests aren’t likely to be dark forces, but rather European representatives that want to keep their power and influence in “the club”, the tens of thousands of people whose jobs are involved with the EU/EC, pressure from other countries that would prefer to have a bigger say over us ect.
As for Milliband I have little respect for him. He seems happy to bash everything, regardless of whether it is good or bad, with the intensity of the bashing being directly proportional to how good it will make him look. I am all in favour of an opposition that properly questions the decisions of government, but when it’s just one constant stream of senseless bashing the opposition role becomes quite ineffective at working for the electorate.
@waco
Do you honestly hand on heart believe Britain only has two choices? If you do, then I suggest a bit of creativity and indepedent thinking could certainly help you to see that there are actually near infinite options open to Britain, many of which are quite feasible. I know the pro-integrationist stance is that Britain must be with the EU or die in the fires of doom, furthermore I believe their vested interests mean they are hardly likely to suggest that leaving the EU could be good in any way for Britain. Ultimately I would like to see it put to the vote, and the people be allowed to make their own choice in a referendum, with an equal allocation of media and marketing for each side so there is no repeat of Ireland. So, will you be supporting democracy, or dictatorship?
ppp@Creaking Door
“So if you are right how do you answer my question; why doesn’t any major UK party want us out of the EU?”
It’s too complex an answer as it varies from party to party, and from MP to MP! One reason true for all is that it’s simply easier to maintain the status quo, fewer consequences to fear. There’s also the vested interests to consider. These vested interests aren’t likely to be dark forces, but rather European representatives that want to keep their power and influence in “the club”, the tens of thousands of people whose jobs are involved with the EU/EC, pressure from other countries that would prefer to have a bigger say over us ect.
As for Milliband I have little respect for him. He seems happy to bash everything, regardless of whether it is good or bad, with the intensity of the bashing being directly proportional to how good it will make him look. I am all in favour of an opposition that properly questions the decisions of government, but when it’s just one constant stream of senseless bashing the opposition role becomes quite ineffective at working for the electorate.
@waco
Do you honestly hand on heart believe Britain only has two choices? If you do, then I suggest a bit of creativity and indepedent thinking could certainly help you to see that there are actually near infinite options open to Britain, many of which are quite feasible. I know the pro-integrationist stance is that Britain must be with the EU or die in the fires of doom, furthermore I believe their vested interests mean they are hardly likely to suggest that leaving the EU could be good in any way for Britain. Ultimately I would like to see it put to the vote, and the people be allowed to make their own choice in a referendum, with an equal allocation of media and marketing for each side so there is no repeat of Ireland. So, will you be supporting democracy, or dictatorship?
ppp@John
Many thanks
@Arthur Pewtey
Nigel Farage’s German wife is an excellent example of how anti-integrationists are not still living 70 years ago, still hating from WW2 ect, as was suggested above! Someone who hates German’s doesn’t marry a German. I don’t think using a tabloid paper as a representation of anti-integrationists views is particularly fair. One could of course make similar comparisons about all kinds of groups who are related to the pro-integrationists too and come up with a very negative conclusion. I think many of the elected anti-integrationists MEPs and MPs would be a better representation.
I don’t think it is different with Al Qaeda as I explained when I made the comparison. Perhaps you could tell us how it is different, if you believe it to be? They are club, they aren’t working in our interests, and they care little for our alternative view. Not to lose sight of the more general point, being outside of a club is not necessarily a bad thing, if you do not wish to do the same things as that club, but it doesn’t stop you being friends and neighbours with the club and its members. I’m not a train fan, and I wouldn’t join a train club, but I’d still do business with a member of a train club! Similarly you will find that anti-integrationists want a productive and pleasant relationship with Europe from outside, rather than the unhappy cohabitation we have at present.
@Waco
Nobody wants isolation. In fact if you look at what UKIP and their similar minded Conservatives want you’ll find they actually want to have strong links with the whole world, whereas the pro-integrationist leaders want to have a fortress Europe. The pro-integrationist counter to this seems to be that Britain alone is too weak to be friends with the world, well, let’s see 🙂
ppp@John
Many thanks
@Arthur Pewtey
Nigel Farage’s German wife is an excellent example of how anti-integrationists are not still living 70 years ago, still hating from WW2 ect, as was suggested above! Someone who hates German’s doesn’t marry a German. I don’t think using a tabloid paper as a representation of anti-integrationists views is particularly fair. One could of course make similar comparisons about all kinds of groups who are related to the pro-integrationists too and come up with a very negative conclusion. I think many of the elected anti-integrationists MEPs and MPs would be a better representation.
I don’t think it is different with Al Qaeda as I explained when I made the comparison. Perhaps you could tell us how it is different, if you believe it to be? They are club, they aren’t working in our interests, and they care little for our alternative view. Not to lose sight of the more general point, being outside of a club is not necessarily a bad thing, if you do not wish to do the same things as that club, but it doesn’t stop you being friends and neighbours with the club and its members. I’m not a train fan, and I wouldn’t join a train club, but I’d still do business with a member of a train club! Similarly you will find that anti-integrationists want a productive and pleasant relationship with Europe from outside, rather than the unhappy cohabitation we have at present.
@Waco
Nobody wants isolation. In fact if you look at what UKIP and their similar minded Conservatives want you’ll find they actually want to have strong links with the whole world, whereas the pro-integrationist leaders want to have a fortress Europe. The pro-integrationist counter to this seems to be that Britain alone is too weak to be friends with the world, well, let’s see 🙂
pppHey Waco
Some very prejudiced views you have there. I see you have decided to categorise I and those with similar views as extreme right wing. This is very interesting. Do tell me, what are your views on abortion and gay marriage? One of my friends is going to have a gay marriage soon, I’d go but he’s moved up to Scotland. You?
I think Britain rules the waves do I? My posts in the Naval forum don’t seem to correlate with your assertion. As for the Atlas, perhaps yours is a quarter red, I’m not sure, but I use Google Maps so you are free to verify what my Atlas looks like.
As for your opinion on British companies leaving, this is simply scaremongering and unlikely to convince anyone but the most gullible.
pppHey Waco
Some very prejudiced views you have there. I see you have decided to categorise I and those with similar views as extreme right wing. This is very interesting. Do tell me, what are your views on abortion and gay marriage? One of my friends is going to have a gay marriage soon, I’d go but he’s moved up to Scotland. You?
I think Britain rules the waves do I? My posts in the Naval forum don’t seem to correlate with your assertion. As for the Atlas, perhaps yours is a quarter red, I’m not sure, but I use Google Maps so you are free to verify what my Atlas looks like.
As for your opinion on British companies leaving, this is simply scaremongering and unlikely to convince anyone but the most gullible.
pppWould it not be better to be liked and part of the club rather than peering through the window and wondering what was going on?
…
Europe is and has always been a complex issue but we shouldn’t let 70 year old prejudices colour our judgment.
Maybe your views are based on 70 year old prejudices, but that’s generally not the case for most anti-integrationists. Danial Hannan perhaps one of the most vocal anti-integrationist MEP’s speaks several European languages to an excellent standard, and Nigel Farage leader of the UK Independence Party and co-chairman of the Freedom and Democracy Group in the European Parliament is married to a German. Those with the projudiced views tend to be the pro-integrationists who make an assumption that their opponents are intellectually weak and ignorant of foreign cultures which is quite clearly false.
As for joining the club, it depends what the club is doing really, doesn’t it? Using your line of reasoning, it would be better for us to join Al-Qaeda and help them carry out terrorist attacks, because it’s “better to be liked and part of the club rather than peering through the window”. Of course not I hear you say, Al-Qaeda is not in our interests, and they wouldn’t be interested in our views! But then again neither is the EU.
pppWould it not be better to be liked and part of the club rather than peering through the window and wondering what was going on?
…
Europe is and has always been a complex issue but we shouldn’t let 70 year old prejudices colour our judgment.
Maybe your views are based on 70 year old prejudices, but that’s generally not the case for most anti-integrationists. Danial Hannan perhaps one of the most vocal anti-integrationist MEP’s speaks several European languages to an excellent standard, and Nigel Farage leader of the UK Independence Party and co-chairman of the Freedom and Democracy Group in the European Parliament is married to a German. Those with the projudiced views tend to be the pro-integrationists who make an assumption that their opponents are intellectually weak and ignorant of foreign cultures which is quite clearly false.
As for joining the club, it depends what the club is doing really, doesn’t it? Using your line of reasoning, it would be better for us to join Al-Qaeda and help them carry out terrorist attacks, because it’s “better to be liked and part of the club rather than peering through the window”. Of course not I hear you say, Al-Qaeda is not in our interests, and they wouldn’t be interested in our views! But then again neither is the EU.
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