The tin pot conspiracy theories have been widely dismissed.

Not convincingly.

Who do you reckon has dismissed these theories? Tin-pot or otherwise.

There is no need for you to drag peoples reputations and the memories of the victims and those who have died since in the pursuit of justice for this crime through the mud to yet again to satisfy your fantasy land.:mad:

That is a fairly typical ‘shoot the messenger’ tactic used by those who do not want to face the truth about the real reasons behind events where so many have died and been seriously injured.

Interesting that you should try to make me look like the ‘nasty’ here when in reality you should be looking at Who Gained and Following the Money.

Big oil, and defence contractors – and all those private company CEOs etc. who are growing rich on the proceeds of the war. Also note how many senators have sons and daughters in the field.

I truly feel for those guys at the front line. But as one well heeled American citizen is quoted as saying (with echoes of Madelaine Albright), ‘cheap oil is worth a few marines a day’.

Do you not understand my points. I am as sickened by the casualties as any right minded human being. I however look behind the media line as my knowledge of history informs me of many other false flag attacks used as pretexts for war. Would you like a list? It would be quite revealing.

I am sorry but until you come up with reasonable counter arguments, instead of bolshy bluster, I do not intend to continue this exchange with yourself.

I can not believe that you are peddling such tripe without evidence or substance.

That is quite untrue.

Then to insult me for being offended by it is even worse. 😡

I have very deliberatly avoided insults and refuse to be drawn into a slanging match.

I have stated an opinion backed up with rationale, if that causes you to choke then I cannot help that.

On top of all that is the appalling level of source usage. Phixer uses a single book to justify his absurd claims and takes it as fact without consultation of other theories or sources, or for that matter actual facts.:mad:

On the contrary, I cited a few sources, which if you had read calmly you would have noted.

I spared the readership here a long list of sources because at this stage I did not think it necessary. I could have listed many, many more. Would people like me to do this?

I cited Ruppert in particular for his most exhastive research. Have you read his book? If so then you would appreciate the breadth, and importance, of his sources.

Only the official account is absurd.

It’s been six years since the USA was attacked by extremists armed with two Boeing 762’s and two Boeing 752’s, …

It has been six years since the conspiracy to carry out a false-flag attack came to fruition, a conspiracy to create ‘The New Pearl Harbour’, as stated in the Project for a New American Century Document.

There are far too many questions unanswered by official reports from FEMA, NIST and the 9/11 Commission Report, aka the Kean/Zelikow report. I have looked at these and they don’t add up.

Cell-phones on Flight 93 could not have worked as claimed.

WRT the Pentagon attack it is almost impossible for a Boeing airliner to have flown the course required without disintegrating as the stresses involved would have been extreme. Besides even an experienced military pilot would have had difficulty carrying out the maneuver with such precision let alone a supposed hijacker with only a few hours on Cessnas and even then not judged to have much talent for that. The lack of sizeable aircraft fragments outside the Pentagon or marks on the lawn, necessarily left if a low flying Boeing had been the missile, give the lie of the official report.

What happened with NORAD that day? The most advanced military organization in the world was paralyzed that day by exercises carried out under the direct supervision of Dick Cheney who had conveniently changed the rules governing such situations a few months before, see below.

As for WTC1, 2 and 7 those came down by controlled demolition. WTC7 had no other reason to come down and the precise order of events when watched carefully demonstrates that explosions came first before any collapse.

Have a look at this if you do not believe:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/10025

I strongly suggest that you read ‘Crossing the Rubicon: the Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil’ by Michael C Ruppert for then you will discover that Cheney was put in charge of the National Energy Policy Development Group immediately after the Bush administration took office. As long ago as between late 1998 and early 2000 returns of oil reserves from the Caspian basin were lower, much lower, than anticipated, it should be noted that Condi’ Rice was an expert on Kazakhstan. This and the realization that dwindling supplies could not be got out easy without secure pipelines through territories such as Afghanistan and Iran, and with Iraq sitting on top of supplies and looming trouble from Saudi Arabia inspired contingency strategic planning at the very top of the US government began during the last years of the Clinton administration and there is evidence that the WTC was a potential target then.

To keep the records of the NEPDG secret from the American people Cheney went to great lengths, including taking Justice Antonin Scalia ‘duck hunting’, to get a supreme ruling to that effect in July 2004, but we run ahead here a bit.

Now I’ll quote Ruppert, “In May 2001 President Bush placed Dick Cheney in charge of all planning for a terror attack, effectively giving him complete control over FEMA, the military, everything. In June 2001 the NORAD scramble protocols that had worked efficiently since 1976 were rewritten to take most decision-making power out of the hands of Air Force field commanders. Although minor exceptions in those protocols still allowed commanders to act on their own in certain cases, as General Arnold did, the change itself provided deniability for elements of confusion that Dick Cheney was going to deliberately engineer and control.”

This is not the only context where Ruppert highlights Cheney’s involvement.

With a crime one always has to consider who gains. Also ‘follow the money’.

Recall that the WTC was the repository for files of the SEC with ongoing high profile investigations into corporate malpractice and fraud (there is a similar link with the Oklahoma bombing). Also many world clearing banks had huge gold deposits in the vaults which was ‘destroyed’. It should be noted that the value of gold had been artificially kept low so as not to upset the money markets.

The WTC was also, as highlighted by Gage, a building in trouble with low occupancy, increasing maintenance costs and problematic demolition scenarios. It was also purchased in the months before the attacks, a huge insurance premium taken out – which was collected afterward. How convenient and how prescient was that ‘terrorist attack’ clause! What an environmental disaster for the survivors in New York and its environs who have been showing increased incidence of many otherwise rare medical conditions with some having died as a result. The crime continues and is a disgrace on the whole nation and particularly those who are still in denial about the true cause of these terrible events.

I accept that many fear for their employment and safety and hence keep quite about ‘what they know’. Others may not understand the relevance of their knowledge. It is clear that those who showed signs of stepping out of line were intimidated – hence the anthrax attacks, another theme well understood and discussed by Ruppert in his book.

Other topics Ruppert mentions are the strange landings of two flights at Cleveland later in the morning of that fateful day and of the links of companies, and their key personnel, engaged in remote flight control developments with the Bush administration. The Pentagon hit in particular was from a flight path that even a top-gun military pilot would find all but impossible let alone some supposed terrorist with a few hours on a Cessna. Don’t forget I am familiar with military jet aircraft and have flown in a few.

One has to view the attacks on the WTC within the context of the broader economic and geopolitical imperatives and the overarching greed of those in charge of the corporate world. In this respect Ruppert’s book is a MUST READ, no doubt about it.

The above is only the tip of the icebergs of challenges to the official versions of events and of the references which back up alternative scenarios for the truth.

I posted to challenge the statement that corrosion was accelerated by the lake no more no less.

Ross

Well anybody who ever had structural repairs to do on RN aircraft will argue strongly that any water, except distilled, will accelerate corrosion. But then even distilled water once exposed to the atmosphere will take up compounds to make it act as an electrolyte, for that is the basis of the corrosion. This galvanic corrosion happens when dissimilar metals are immersed in an electrolyte. The dissimilar metals can be in different parts of a structure or within an exposed light alloy material. Light alloy, e.g. L72 (an Alclad), contains particles of copper, and other elements, at the grain boundaries which act like keys to lock the molecules of aluminium in the matrix and thus increase the UTS above that of aluminium. Alclad has outer layers of aluminium to inhibit corrosion. The surface of the aluminium exposed to the atmosphere develops an outer layer of oxide which is impermeable to further galvanic action.

Much time, and money, was spent in the prevention and removal of corrosion products on naval aircraft.

Front line, sea going RN heavy jets were assembled with special compounds used at mating faces to inhibit the ingress of moisture. ISTR that the first SHARs assembled had this protection omitted as the RAF did not require it and some rebuilding was required.

Back in late 1972 a GA11, WV381, to which I had fitted a Harley light mod, had a problem on take off from Lee, I was watching it take off having strapped in the pilot, done the necessary and saluted him out onto the peri’ track. The aircraft spent nearly 48 hours in the Solent. The late November weather was foggy, and only the fin tip was just visible above water and took a bit of locating. When lifted out the aircraft was placed in the AAIU (Air Accident Investigation Unit) also at Lee on Solent.

Some time later I had occasion to visit the aircraft, after considerable pressure on the AAIU management, as part of a survey of GA11 rear pressure bulkheads for a proposed new radio fit on the FRADU fleet, we wanted to fix a common position for the connector that was to be fitted in that bulkhead.

The aircraft was on jacks and trestles. As I climbed the ladder and looked into the cockpit I became aware of a loud crackling noise which at first was puzzling. Then it quickly dawned on me that it was the sound of magnesium alloy fittings, e.g., the grip of the control column and instrument panel supporting structures corroding away. The noise was unmissable it was that loud. Undercarriage struts and wheels were also of magnesium alloy.

Helicopters of 1950s and 1960s vintage had trouble obtaining an operational power to weight ratio so so had a more extensive magnesium alloy structure than heavy jets. Thus such aircraft were always more prone to corrosion. Also ISTR that the wing-rib forgings at the wing fold of aircraft such as the Sea Vixen were of magnesium alloy.

That’s an authentic Harley light in the nose.
When WT799 was in active service, its light produced a beam so powerful it could be seen at least three miles away.
It hasn’t got a bad range in daylight either 🙂

I recall unintentionally illuminating the WRNS quarters one winter evening whilst carrying out post light and other fits ground tests.

Got some flak for that.:D

They were somewhat shocked to find the Venom taxing to the runway, lol
as they were convinced it had burst into flames when starting up 🙂

A similar thing happened when a visiting SeaHawk squadron started up together at a US airfield during the 1950s, their fire department turned out.:D

Now to see a line up of 10-12 of those start up together, by pre arranged signal, was a spectacle worth watching.

Smaller cartiridges though, in a six-shot chamber, but IIRC fired in pairs.

This was taken at the last general open day at Brunty……
John.

Nice. I do like to see the effect of those big Avon starter cartridges.

Were they similar to the Hunter ones? The Canberra T22s I worked with had a similar cartridge to the Hunters GA11, RN PR10 and T8c.

Some find it hard to believe how large they were, some shotgun that’s for sure! 😀

Anybody got one to measure or post a pic with a rule alongside for scale. ISTR they were about 3 1/2 inches in diameter and a good six inches long or thereabouts. But it has been some time since I last fitted them.

That Hunter triple breach is probably why I now have so much trouble with my right shoulder, being a short-a*** it was an awkward reach.