Actually it is very hard to get in google. I tried my best earlier. On the first instance of some one wanting it reposted too I could not find it via google and lost the original link, then another forumer found it and posted it.

try HAL built Hawks cheaper or something, I have had no luck with it.

http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/Producing_Hawk_AJT_in_India_will_be_cheaper-nid-20657.html

This is not the same its an earlier link saying it would be cheaper, the other news came out after the first HAL built Hawks were delivered.

If I recall correctly, I read that HAL-assembled Hawks were a third cheaper than BAE-assembled Hawks on one of the major aviation information websites – FlightGlobal/DefenseNews/AviationWeek/DefenseAerospace etc Unfortunately I cannot remember on which forum I posted the report.

in their testimony to Parliament, ADA has stated that all 11 test pilots who flew the Tejas Mk1 rated its handling qualities as “Very Good”.

Hardly means a thing. How good are the different flight characteristics of the aircraft – pitch control, roll rate, ability to turn etc? Which handling quailities are bad, mediocre, good, very good, excellent in comparison to what benchmark?

one reason why it got re-engined so quickly was because they didn’t take much time to decide in favour of the GE F414 engine as GE was one of the partners. In India’s case, the decision between EJ200 and F414 itself has gone on for more than 1 year what with RFIs followed by RFPs and its finally the IAF’s decision that will be accepted. Till an engine selection is made, they obviously cannot start integrating anything.

According to Wikipedia the dimensions of the GE404 and GE414 are identical. If so, what’s the big deal integrating the GE414? The EJ200 is 152mm narrower than the GE404 but 88mm longer, so I guess there would be more design work involved to integrate it.

LCA is not a succes yet and I doubt it will be looking at the price and alternative. There is no market for it. Who will go for a fighterjet and depend on one supplier?

Assuming Tejas will be the lowest cost aircraft in its class to buy and operate, I don’t agree there will be no market for it. Emerging from the worst world financial crisis for at least 75 years, many governments have serious debt problems. I think defence budgets will be under pressure for some time to come, pushing some defence ministries to defer major purchases or to consider buying the cheapest system available that will do the job.

I don’t understand your question asking who would want to buy a fighter jet and depend on one supplier. What aircraft are available from more than one supplier?

However, that does not mean we have to make massive assumptions about other programmes, specifically LCA, that we cannot support with facts.

I think I have made a number of assumptions, none of which are massive:

if GOI provides the financial means

a) HAL are capable of producing a credible alternative to F16/Gripen
b) HAL will be able to undercut LM and SAAB on price
c) there are countries that only have the finances to buy and operate a very low cost sophisticated light fighter
d) Tejas will be bought by countries in category (c)
e) countries fearful of US interference in their ability to buy/maintain their own force of light fighters will buy aircraft without US parts eg Tejas with a non-US engine

I don´t remember the total cost of the system SAAB offered to Norway or even what it all included (but that tender is such a farce it´s not even worth discussing).

True. It seemed ridiculous to me, too. I bet the Norwegian govt will be mighty dismayed when they see the actual price tag for their F-35’s.

And SAAB is offering a guaranteed fixed price towards its customers. If the costs should rise it is the Swedes who will pay the extra money.

I guess that is what India will have to do, as well.

So far Hungary and the Czechs have been extremely happy with the deals. Planes delivered ahead of schedule, counter-trades faster and better then contracted etc. A happy customer is after all a pretty good sales pitch…

From my limited experience of following the LCA programme, I think a whole new psyche will need to be adopted by all concerned for India to be able to offer Swedish levels of organisation, credibility and reliability. In comparison with the Gripen programme the LCA programme looks like a very, very extended exercise in chaotic mismanagement by a bunch of incompetents.

Sorry about the harsh words but they reflect my opinion.

Actually IIRC the SwAF paid $31 mil. per unit for their last batch of Gripen C/Ds, that was something like over 10% cheaper then first estimated. So when it comes to fly-away prices the Gripen does´nt seems to be that much more expensive then the LCA…..

But fly-away pricetag is´nt important when it comes to export sales. What the customer wants to know is, how much is it gonna cost us to buy, own and operate this aircraft for at least a couple of decades.

Good points. I thought the price offered to Norway and Holland was a lot higher than $31 million. If Tejas MkII cannot undercut Gripen NG substantially on through life costs, I don’t see why a buyer would opt for the Tejas – unless it could not buy Gripen due to US refusal to approve the sale or was worried about possible US interference with the supply of spares during its service life ie being under pressure to tow the US foreign policy line for a couple of decades.

a Tejas could cost around $30-35 million per unit for export (since the IAF’s Tejas’ cost around $25-26 million per unit), whereas the Gripen C/D goes for anywhere near $50-55 million per unit. name one system on the Gripen C/D that the Tejas doesn’t already have or won’t have when it enters service this year.

The Gripen price seems more plausible than the $31 million mentioned above but while I can see that GOI might object to export customers getting a lower price than the price paid by the IAF, why should export Tejas’ cost $5-$10 million more than those supplied to the IAF? That would be compromising one of the key advantages Tejas MkII could offer – a much lower price than Gripen.

It has no Indian engine and by that it is restricted to US permission for every export similar the JF-17 with the Russian engine.

So… do a deal with Eurojet for a first rate engine. If the Kaveri can be sorted by involving SNECMA, perhaps offer that as a lower cost alternative later on.