>> but I believe there was a Meteor fitted with RR Tyne turboprops <<
RR Trent turboprops methinks?
Right you are. I am not doing well today!
I suspect the crux may be the Merlin issue – production was at full stretch and needed to be to supply existing aircraft. I imagine there simply would not have been enough Merlins to go around. That said, I doubt a P40, even Merlin engined, would have been able to hold its own against a Bf109G or a Fw 190A. There were of course some (Packard) Merlin powered P40s anyway – the F model? – and I’d be interested to see how these worked in terms of altitude performance and dogfight-ability.
We may never know how a Merlin powered Whirlwind would have fared, as to my knowledge most of the problems of this aircraft were related to its RR Peregine engines. I imagine the Mosquito would simply have been too big to get into dogfighting. The DH Hornet would have performed the task admirably, but was a lot later on the scene.
The Miles M20, had it gone into series production, might have found itself in this role as it had a considerably better range than contemporary Hurricanes and Spitfires.
Slightly off topic but I just LOVE alertken’s prose style. Grammatically all over the place but absolutelly succinct and informative (and accurate too).
Me too, in the shorter posts, but I find with the more complex stuff there is a kind of ‘critical mass’ beyond which I find it difficult to comprehend and invariably spend hours teasing all the details out!
Apologies for getting my Siddeleys mixed up, there are a lot of them out there.
Off topic again, but I believe there was a Meteor fitted with RR Tyne turboprops – anyone know what came of this?
There is a book that describes the combat between Hunters and Sabres. The Sabre being the much older design actually came out on top.
I’m sure that some one will add some facts to this brief statement, like who actually was at each other with them! (Possible India and A.N.Other).
I would be interested to hear more.
I’d also like to know which version of each aircraft it was and what the circumstances were. From the stats I am aware of, the Hunter F.6 was a cut above any Sabre apart, perhaps, from the Avon engined ones, in all but range.
The Hunter F1/F2, being an interceptor rather than an air superiority fighter like the Sabre, had considerably less time to hang around and fight (the difference was less with drop tanks) but was superior in terms of rate of climb and speed, and was of course much more heavily armed (two 30mm Aden cannon). All other things being equal the F6 would leave even the last Sabres for dead I imagine.
Returning to topic, the DH Venom was something of a stop-gap, with an uprated engine (DH Ghost instead of Goblin) and a new wing on a Vampire fuselage, while the Navy ummed and ahd over whether it wanted the DH110 (Sea Vixen) or not. It was not the latest technology and, while a big leap over the Vampire, would not have been able to compete on equal terms with Sabres and MiG 15s. By the time a new generation of fighters was being planned to match and exceed these first generation swept wing aircraft, engines had moved on too and we had the likes of RR Avon and Bristol Siddeley Sapphire to choose from.
Would it be fair to say that the Ghost was about on a par with the RR Nene, in terms of performance and the level of technology?
1954 Hunters, both engines, suffered instability, which was fixed, and Aden efflux blanking intakes. That was fixed by Sabrinas – only the very old understand this.
Swift F.1 was merely unstable, unfixed, scrapped.
It was the hot air escaping from the cannon firing entering the intakes which caused the Avons to surge (didn’t happen with Sapphires though) – presumably as well as catching the shell casings the Sabrinas dissipated the hot exhaust from the cannon thus preventing it from affecting the engine airflow.
Swift suffered similar problems I believe, and worse when they tried to fit two more Adens into leading edge extensions on the wings which caused uncontrollable pitch-up unless the radome was fitted with Blue Circle radar (i.e. a bag of cement).
J Boyle – well, close – nowadays they are used for sweeping meteors away from the Earth, having been fitted with a rocket engine in the tail… http://stratos4.nte.be
Hmm, uncanny. Destiny Angel eat your heart out. I wonder if all the crews would have been that attractive?
A look at the RAF website seems to bear out the suggestion that Phantom/Buccaneer units would have been the ones to be equipped with TSR2s, but I’d love to see a 617 squadron TSR2 with the lightning bolts on the tail, or a 111 squadron version with the black tail and yellow trim (which they did of course add to their Phantom FG1s…)
Though I doubt they would have been so marked, I’d love to see a Lighting style polished metal finish with brightly coloured tail surfaces and badges. What about a 56 squadron TSR2???
Thanks. Some interesting suggestions on that forum, and yet… and yet…
I don’t buy ‘Tornado’ as it was the name of a Hawker aircraft (the RR Vulture engined Typhoon prototype) and therefore Typhoon wouldn’t fit either. ‘Merlin’ was suggested as very nearly the name of the F-111 in RAF service, but I doubt any ‘bird’ names would have been chosen for fear of narking Bristol Siddeley – bird of prey names were associated very firmly with Rolls Royce! So that goes for ‘Eagle’ as well…
Thinking about it, I think Vickers would have objected to ‘Thunder’ as being too close to the ‘Lightning’ (history seems to have shown that the Vickers part of BAC jealously guarded the TSR2 project from any kind of perceived EE ownership – refusing to sanction the test flights from Warton for example)…
So that doesn’t leave us with much. Although I did like the spurious suggestion of ‘Excalibur’ someone made! Though perhaps if we’re talking swords, ‘Damocles’ might have been more appropriate…
Also scrapped was as a long-range destroyer called the XB-70.
Yeah, but it made the Empire waste billions of credits on developing the Ti-Interceptor though.
wow and complete with a r2 unit
paul
And Battle Damage ™ as well! I hear those ones are worth more.
Dave, thanks for PM. If you still need money I can probably add £100 to your total.
What a shame. I only picked up on this this morning and to see the sequence of complete-aircraft-to-pile-of-aluminium-mulch is quite saddening. Sure, you can’t turn the whole country into a museum and save every relic but the way this has happened leaves a really bad taste in the mouth. Bye bye 319, may flights of angels sing you to your rest and all that.
I’ll have the tail if no one else wants it.
Very nice! Make sure you show us the finished article when the undercarriage is on. And how about a couple of ‘what if’ colour schemes too?!
Speaking of TSR2, I got this email from Models2U last week regarding the long awaited Airfix kit:
Models2U have been advised by Airfix that the moulds were approved last week and the model goes into production today, Monday 9th January. The estimated date of receipt into the UK given by Airfix is around the 20th February. This is still an estimate but at least it is now in production and the countdown to release has begun.
Our Despatch Department will be despatching in strict order with customers who selected Next Day handled first, then in the date the orders were received.
We will be contacting you later in the month to confirm your payment details and if your credit card details have expired etc.
We have an unprecedented interest in this model and have a number of people already on a waiting list if any spares become available (we have already sold all of our allocation). We would ask that if you have changed your mind in the many months since ordering (for some of you) and you no longer require it, we would be pleased if you could let us know as soon as possible, so that it can be re-allocated.
We have been promised it’ll be worth the wait by Airfix and we thank you all for your patience.
I did speak to Dave – very prompt response and clear about the canopy issue. Looking forward to my Mew Gull…
Even with shipping the prices seem very reasonable indeed. When I checked the exchange rate the total price came in well under twenty quid. Might treat myself to a Hawk as well!
Sorry mate – no radial= no can do!
😀
TT
Two 11,380lb thrust turbofans are kind of radial. They have round bits…
XN293, with regard to your query about the round holes in the side of the fuselage, are you refering to the hole all the way through the rear fuselage through which you fit the tye-down bar for high power ground runs?
Could well be… I’ve not managed to find a picture that’s close up enough to tell. However, I’m fairly sure these are specific to Sea Hurricanes. Here’s what I mean… See the mark between the ‘7’ and the roundel on the Shuttleworth hurri and the ‘spigot’ thing on the plan above the arrestor hook – I doubt this goes all the way through as it would intefere with the hook jack, but I could be wrong. Over to you…