Stupid thing is that the handouts these farmers thrive on (you probably know that French countryside roads make for the best car-driving you can imagine) aren’t coming from Paris, but from Brussels.

True of course, though this is because the French government has decades of experience in working the system: if an EU directive suits France implement it, if not – ignore it. Yes, French roads make for great driving; while cruising relaxedly along them, one can gaze at farmers in blue overalls milking a solitary cow, a photogenic spotted one perhaps – a sight otherwise impossible anywhere west of (say) Vienna because it makes economic nonsense! I don’t know if France is still the biggest net beneficiary of the CAP but it always used to be, thereby maintaining its picturesque but hugely subsidised agricultural system at fellow Europeans’ expense…

As for getting the banlieus back on track: it’s probably way too socialist for Sarko, but using the unemployed in those areas as a workforce to get those areas back on track would be a good thing…….. a sort of Arbeitseinsatz (“no chomage pay if you don’t work at least a bit in your area”) should make them grasp concepts like ‘responsibility’ and possibly even ‘labour ethos’…

Sadly, I think you are too optimistic! And I can imagine the shuffling of feet, embarrassed failure to meet others’ eyes, etc, if the word “Arbeitseinsatz” were employed in public discussion of the issue… A bit close to the bone. I think Frank van W (?) has it exactly right:

many teenagers who drop out of school, dress like gangsters, and can’t even spek properly (note that I’m not referring here to cutural and national origins, but to the fact that, to give themselves a “style”, their language is riddeled with obscenities, slang, and they take a fake North African accent).
If you were the employer of a small company (I’m not referring to a multinational company that is paying minimum wages for unqualified workers), would you hire such people, knowing they’ll have contacts with your customers, and that the survival of your small company relies on them ? I wouldn’t. So they are left with those minimum wage jobs, if any.
Now, if they learnt something, they could apply for better jobs. But they have to be willing. Some do.

Frank, you could be writing about large tracts of English cities, especially London: substitute “West Indian” for “North African” in terms of the mode of speech affected by huge numbers of young black males, who inhabit exactly the same disaffected social niche as the kids of the bainlieus. There is no conspiracy, racist or otherwise, to deprive them of education and employment: they disqualify themselves wilfully, by adopting anti-social values. I hear them on the radio or TV and can hardly understand what they say. When in Rome, do as the Romans, and learn to speak their language – in advance of your arrival…
Regards, hps

(Sarkozy) currently seems to be looking for ministers from both the left and right of France’s political spectrum, which is definately a plus IMHO.

Agreed – let’s hope he genuinely desires to pull France together, though it’s difficult to believe that has ever been achieved since Napoleon, and even he had a spot of bother with malcontents such as the many Royalists who actively aided Britain…

What the Sarkozistii definately need to work on is reforming France’s socio-economical structure. It’s still way too much a nationalistic Paris-centered economy..

Totally dirigiste, though mayors of major cities have considerable power it seems – I have some knowledge of Montpellier, whose mayor a few years ago was described to me by a local friend as “acting like Mussolini” (shades of K.Livingstone..). Trouble is, much of France is wedded firmly to the paternalistic handouts of the all-powerful State – when e.g. the farmers take to the streets as they often do so entertainingly (dumping manure on the Champs Elysee, sacking local agriculture ministry buildings etc, great stuff!) they’re not standing up for rugged individualism at all, but nearly always just demanding more feather-bedding…

..both Sarko and Bush are totally oblivious to concepts like ‘diplomacy’, ‘subtlety’ and ‘think-before-you-speak’. But then again, France has always been the USA of Europe.

Really? I’ve never heard that suggested before – seems improbable. And it’s unfair to say Bush (maybe Sarko too) is oblivious to diplomacy: this is the accusation always levelled by Europeans at America, in the hypocritical pretence that sophisticated, well mannered (and inexpensive..) talk-talk is always possible. It isn’t, of course, because dangerous extremists persist in arising and can only be dealt with by a big stick, usually an American one. I can sympathise with US critics who argue that America should stop looking after European security, and see how the Europeans like having to look after themselves.

As for bringing peace and quiet to the Banlieus: that’s going to be quite a challenge. Sarko’s definately has a wonderful talent to p!ss people off..

By straight talking? With so many mealymouthed hypocrites in power, feeble creeps who are happy to diminish all our freedoms but who shrink from firm action against clearly wicked types, I find Sarko refreshing.

.. with Sarko being a right-winger… Get the rebellious youth out of the slums, and into a job.

This connects to Sealordlawrence’s comment about Grey Area’s supposed anti-US comment – sorry, but i too was mystified by this accusation! AFAICS it is bang-on to say Sarko, despite the continual and very irritating description of him by the Euro media as a “right winger”, would be viewed in the USA as what they call a “liberal” of sorts; generally socialist, because despite S’s conservative views on social policy he is unlikely to alter France’s economic stance very much toward US-style free market economics. Though achieving the latter might be the best way to get those youths into jobs..
hps

.. Dream Theater, Sonata Arctica, Nightwish and Edenbridge to mention a few.

Sorry, never heard of them!

.. I also pay attention to Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits, Johnny Cash, Beach Boys, Queen, Enya..

Fascinating list! I cannot stand Johnny Cash (too folksy) and Enya (I find she epitomises bland middlebrow pop – sorry!), used to admire Knopfler/Dire Straits (excellent musicians), Beach Boys & Queen are classics of different sorts – many teenagers continue to like Queen especially.

.. classical music as well as film music/soundtracks by Strauss, Wagner, Bach, Mozart, Vivaldi, Grieg, Barry, Batt, Williams, Shore, Vangelis, Horner, Poledouris etc. Lots of good stuff to discover! 🙂

Hmmmm… No time for Strauss, Wagner too portentous/funereal/Teutonic, love Bach, Mozart, Vivaldi, unsure about Grieg, John Barry a long-time genius in his genre, Williams – if you mean Vaughan Williams? – certainly, Vangelis ditto (nb his film score for Blade Runner), don’t know the other four you mention. Internet/wi-fi radio is proving very valuable for widening one’s musical appreciation.
hps

[QUOTE=dhfan;1114231]Where have you been?QUOTE]
Clearly, not paying much attention to The Stones… A friend & I said to ourselves, We really ought to see the Stones before they/we die of old age, and they’re at Wembley soon. Great show, massive audience aged from teens to 50s. That was in 1982… I’d never have dreamed they’d still be doing the rounds 25 years later – without Mr Wyman of course. I think they peaked not long after 1970.
hps

(metal) is a very complex and flexible type of music with vast possibilites. I think your words may fit some sub-genres, but I for one wouldn’t apply them to the music of more “soft” and melodic bands like Dream Theater, for instance. But then again, it’s just taste. Take me, for example. I find it hard to understand how mature people can enjoy all sorts of modern pop music, not to mention techno, trance, dance, rap, hip-hop etc.

I can’t imagine any kind of “metal” that is “soft & melodic” – surely a contradiction? But it’s not a genre I’ve ever taken much interest in. Sure, it’s taste – and I can appreciate all kinds of stuff, from Albinoni & Bach to Abba and Frank Zappa. In the last couple of years I’ve been exploring some modern rock/pop too – check out Isolee, Cold Cut, Carl Craig… There’s always some interesting music around, and it’s mistaken to get locked into the music of one’s own generation (i.e. from one’s teens & twenties) because you can miss so much.
I still think most “metal” is mindless junk, though… My 14-yr-old son likes Rammstein, though they have only a small following in UK. Maybe he’ll grow out of it…
hps

…you’ll be pleased to know that Megadeth’s latest album, United Abominations, is released next week…I’ll be seeing them live on Saturday with Black Sabbath!

Good grief, can Black Sabbath still be around? Well, if the Stones can still play, with Bill Wyman now aged 70, I suppose… It just gets a bit undignified and embarrassing. And as for the music, I sort of found BS listenable-to in the 1970s, but I was very young at the time. Difficult to understand how anyone much over 20 or so can take “Metal” seriously, it’s so grotesque, repetitive, formulaic and crude.
As for the UN, your quote (sounds like a US source) is pretty well accurate in its estimation. Last I heard, Libya was still chairing the UN’s Human Rights Committee – all one needs to know, really.
hps

…you have a poor opinion of those of us who embrace a world made up of sovereign states free of ideological and economic manipulation by more “powerful” ones, and it is your right to hold and espouse those views, indeed I would challenge anyone who would seek to rob you of that right. You may class my views as not rational as they do not coincide with yours..

Perhaps I was a little blunt in describing your views as “not rational” – a more polite description might be “ahistorical”, in that although I would like to share your belief in a world of nations “free of ideological & economic manipulation by more powerful ones” I find that any reading of history shows such a belief to be utterly unrealistic! As I said before, power abhors a vacuum, and strong nations will inevitably impose their will upon weaker ones: better that this be done by a relatively benign nation such as the USA, or in the 19thC Great Britain, than a tyrannical, despotic power such as the Third Reich, or the USSR, or China… Or any Arab state you care to mention. Or Indonesia, Iran…
hps

Sorry that my sign off tag infuriates you so much..

It doesn’t. I just think it’s a transparent heart-on-the-sleeve clue to your political leanings. In the end there’s no such thing as “non aligned”, it’s not rational, and power abhors a vacuum…

Comments were requested by the original poster on the election of Sarkozy and I have given them without questioning anyone elses ability to digest/understand news and events.

I didn’t question (etc)… I just think that “non aligners” are inherently prone to a lack of objectivity about outcomes.

My view on the French election is my own and I hope that by the end of Sarkozys term in office, for the French peoples sake, that I am proved wrong, but I doubt I will be.

Well, we have opposing views on what might be good for the people of France in terms of its style of government – which impinges also upon its friends and neighbours. As I suggested originally, the country can simply not afford the onerously Socialist burden of taxation and regulation that has grown so steadily: punitive tax-and-spend quickly comes up against the law of diminishing returns. France has a sickly economy, with stagnant growth and high unemployment. If continued, it will place France (esp. its economy/trade) in an increasingly invidious relationship with the more free-market nations of the West.
hps