So hold on let me get this straight, your fuming and upset that pro Tibet demonstrators tried to put out the olympic flame yet your not upset about the oppresion of the tibetan people which is one millon times worse then trying to put out some pathetic propane fueled flame?

Who said Im not upset about Tibetian opression?
Abut as I said few weeks back (despite the fact that i got the idea that you had no clue of what so ever what i was talking about.) Thats tibetian and chinese issue to be taken care…
…olympics have nothing to do with it, so if the pro-tibetians really want to do something usefull, buy M-16 (wich looses its irony as you can actually buy that one in america:rolleyes: ) and go to the mountains where the reall difference is made…
Throwing torches to gutter is pure anti-chinese ranting, nothing to do with the tibetians….unless you can came up with analog of how china is helding olympic games to tease the poor tibetians…;)

Well, i don’t play any instruments… but i am a drummer!!!

😀 😀 Me too!!

I started of with latin percussions when I was at high shcool (or lukio as we call it) and have had a full drumkit for around year and a half now.

I’m still learning to play, only proplem being the limited time that I have peace and quiet with my kit (which naturally ends soon after I take my place behind them). I’m basicly trying to learn to play all the Zeppelin numbers under the logic “If I can master the Bonzo’s impossible patters, I can master anything”. Other stuff that I like to play and listen falls basicly to same cathegory as the above band like The Who, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd and so on..

Also in very recently I’ve started to be more and more interessed about Indian music, exspecially palying the tabla drums (tough I don’t have tablas, so I have to use my Bongo’s to imitate them). As I have no idea of the theory of the music, neither the western nor the indian, I just listen and try to figure out what they are doing with which hand and try it out myself…with various success sofar.

I find your last line a very sad comment on what must be your perception of the situation that the Tibetans find themselves in, and strangely at odds with your comments on caring for the plight of the people of Zimbabwe, also the victims of massive human rights abuses, on another thread.

Well mirrored against the myth that the Tibetians want to present of themselves along with their Dalai Lama, of some sort of dececants of heaven on earth, They should look more carefully about when they rant and not.

Its completely different pose when poor and struggeled grabs arms in their home yards and retreat to mountains to wage gurrelia war, than when rich and spoiled westeners comes to attacking innocent sportmen out of nothing better to do.

Let us not forget where the modern “olympic flame relay” as we know it came from……and I dont mean Greece.

Indeed, also we shouldn’t forget that one of major claims that Real Tibetians (not the wannabies who ditch the torch into gutter) have is to clear out Han-chinese race out of their promised land as they find Han inferior and are afraid of loosing their own ethnical integrity if Han people would be allowed to move there…;) 😉

As for the ‘Iraqians’, I thought that Allah cared for them, after all, God works in wondrous ways that us mere mortals don’t understand.

Oh dear…they should choose garden-gnomes instead of that old god thingie….more, how you say, present?

Have Finland send in a peace keeping force and lots of foreign aid.

Unfortuanetly no:( Our rigth-wing governement currently has so big war-heat going on that nothing that does NOT include change of seeing big boys wiht big guns in form of NATO and other US_adventures does not concern them…
But I didn’t vote for them, so…

A time to be bit angry and share it with you others;)

If I have any rant about olympics inside of me, these harrasing of the flame relay is really buggin me off:mad:
As a amatour athlete myself, olympics have always been important things to me, and such untastefull and unpolite manners that these pro-Tibet people have shown really puts the shame on them. No matter how valid their agenda migth (or not) be, Olympic flame is something that they should have not go to disturpt.
Of what ever sympathy I had for Tibetians suddenly has fallen away:mad::mad:

Western interventioism would indeed come in effect if there were something which west could exploid…but there isen’t. And even if there is, west would just put some local chap in the throne and be happy as long as oil floods into the western markets…and what about the Zimbave people?? Who cares…Who cares for the Iraqians?

Rule Brittania..:dev2: :dev2:

Its so bloody wrong that the nazis lost the WWII, as then we would have our own colonny as well:mad: 😡

“…but he was too tierd to go on…”

Gee, Now I know why there are so few guys in these forums who actually knows and more so understands stuff…they just couldn’t be bothered with these kinda lads.

To all ye others, if you wish to know about littorial naval warfare or about how modern mechanised landwarfare is fough, due by all mean turn to Plawolfs experties, he really has the hang on things…

One thing I do have to say, as your proffesor is trying to pulling our legs…

I know full well how artillery works and it works by a set of fixed principles that is usually written down on a set of tables. So much elevation gives you so much range. Accuracy need to be adjusted for wind etc. The PLA anti-air gunners I saw training had memoried all those tables off by heart. They were going given the range, heading speed of the target and wind directions. They did the calculations themselves. It was not just about pointing the barrels in the direction they were told to.

The basic idea of artillery. You have a point A from where you need to shoot to the point B. You cannot see the point B. What do you do?

Well you will shoot ballistically. Everyone who has ever studied physics can propably give you the formula where certain ammount of force gives the projectile certain speed and certain flightpath and a estimated location where it going to drop. But this is theoretical calculations with simple XY co-ordinate axels. How do you apply that to the practise and transfere that to the field? Well our proffesor surely knows this but is teasing us and trying to misslead us to think irrelevant issues…

To fire artillery, you need to have fixed co-ordinate system set to the area where you are firing to and from. Most modern artillerysystems may use GPS, where you basicly just push the button and the GPS recievs the GPS co-ordinates of the gun and sends them to the battery’s command post via radio. GPS is however not always the most accurate means of doing this and has alot of limitations. Other method is using gyroscope (like in inertial navigation). You set the know co-ordinates of some safe location to the gun and due the gyroscope, the gun knows all the time exactly where it is. Our 155K98 used this method. We once set the co-ordinates in our barracks at Vekarajärvi, drove the gun up to 900km away to Rovajärvi and started to shoot once we got there without adjusting the guns settings by any means. The radio sended the encrypted co-ordinates to the battery HQ similar way as with GPS, only the way how the co-ordinates were aquired was different.

But how it was done before GPS and for example how does PLA which doesen’t feature neither of these systems in any artillery system it currently has in service outside assumingly the still-to-be introduced PLZ05??

Well they use method adotable from basic land surveing. You have the co-ordinates of of some spesific spot. Without going too much to the very principles of the surveing, you use theodolite to meassure co-ordinates of some other point by measuring it from the known-spot. There are spesific survey unit in the artillery battalions support battery. Those guys does one of the most important and sadly underated task of the artillery. They bring the co-ordinates to each fire sections (battery is divided to two fire sections, basic and side) to spot which is called basic point. The co-ordinates of this point is now known. And here comes the actual guns, hauled to the fire postion and hurried to the individual spots of each gun. Now starts the important phase. Its called “fanning”. A theodolite is setted to the basicpoint.

The section commander meassures rough bearings of the guns. Each gun has it tube set to horizontal postion eg its facing straight forward. The aiming scope is aimed using only the bearing (not elevation) aimers towards the theodolite. The section commander gives the bearings of each gun and those are set to the aiming scope. Then you traverse the whole gun again so that you see the theodolite from yuor aiming scope by using the traverse wheel and not touching to the scope any longer. This is made with each gun and they all now points to single direction forming sort of fan with their tubes.

The actual firing is done by replacing the theodolite by a collimator which is individual to each gun. You set the paramets to the aiming scope and use the traverse wheels so you see the maching figure from the collimator trough your aiming scope. Elevation is done by setting the simple spirit-level straight with your elevation wheel.

But in further information, please turn to Plawolfs experties, he knows alot more of these stuff than I or any else of you. Or if he doesen’t know it instantly, he will watch some PLA training video or pamflet and shall return to the matter later on;)