Thanks all, didn’t mean to sound curmudgeonly before.
To put my cards on the table, this was a local flight – staging between Exeter and St Eval. Cloud base was between 1,800 and 1,500 feet (from met reports of the day), from 5/10 to 10/10.
A direct route would have tracked right across Dartmoor, which goes up to 1,800 feet or so. Dangerous if they were using ground way points for navigation. The one survivor of the three said they descended to 300ft (must have been AGL) ‘near Bovey Tracey’. Cloud was occasionally down to 200ft AGL, so I imagine this was to get a view of the ground for navigation purposes. My contention is they were tracking so as go around the high ground, to the South. That’s the only way Bovey Tracey would make sense on a flight from Exeter to St Eval. (All this needs a map to visualise). However, the survivor said that he suddenly saw the ground rise up ahead of him.. and he climbed, and headed back to Exeter. No-one saw the others again.
Now, if one applies the 11.8 deg variation applicable at the time to the shortest ‘safe’ high-ground-skirting track from Exeter (as if an error had been made.. The survivor said they were lost at the point he left the flight around Bovey Tracey – probably because the visible ground features didn’t tally).. one has the remaining two flying at a height around cloud base right into the heart of Dartmoor, and not around it – and colliding with the high ground immediately East of Fox Tor Mire. Which is what our (second hand) eyewitness report says as well. They reported TWO aircraft flying over their farm near Dartmeet, and not being high enough to clear the ground to the South West (that they, the farmers, knew was there but which could have been invisible) That matches the hypothetical track very well.
Sorry Moggy, but I do mean magnetic declination and it IS in the horizontal plane. Just for clarirty. Please check your sources. Or just Google it.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?site=&source=hp&ei=27vBVeW3Fe6R7AaWo4rIAQ&q=declination&oq=&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.41l3.0.0.0.2585.1.1.0.1.1.1.429.429.4-1.1.0….0…1c..64.mobile-gws-hp..0.1.64.3.9XzjJ16zbl4#q=magnetic+declination
I am familiar with a lot of the principal behind it too, being a graduate physical geographer and geomorphologist. My questions are further to that base knowledge. I do have the local variation for the area in December 1940. It was drawing this on a map that made me want to test a hypothesis. – but first I needed a few specifics. That AP sounds useful!
Maybe I should have been more specific and said ‘magnetic declination’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination
Thanks Moggy
Thanks Moggy. That has helped me clarify my thinking. In this case it is a flight of three single seater fighters transiting between airfields in very bad weather, routed so as to avoid high ground. Pointing out that ultimately it will be down to lines on a map orientated true North which would then need to be ‘translated’ to mag North compass bearings has crystised tbings a little. One more question.. and it’s a real novice one, I am afraid. Did the P-series compasses have a bezel that allowed correction for declination?
Just an accumulation of references over the years, I guess.. one to hand is this, re QDM’s: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/33/a2281033.shtml
..and the fact the order had to specify ‘true’ of course.
In the light of the other sad news today, this is a good news story. I am appalled by the smart *rse ‘reporter’ on the ITN site criticising the pilot’s forced landing. Full marks to the Met’s finest – “Scotland Yard said that no-one else was on board when the single seater plane crash landed”..
Thanks Ross. The knowledge on this site is amazing.
I’ve touched on remote sensing too.. as far as I know Landsat operates at far too low a resolution (15m at absolute best). I am guessing the ‘Lancaster’ image came from some other source?
Hi Ross
Is there then a method available to find a couple of shallow buried aircraft in a Dartmoor bog? Now a serious question.
I think there are some doubts as to the credibility of the chap behind the software. https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-tim-ackers-mh370-debris-claims.t3595/
Shame, because that ‘magic underground aeroplane finder’ would have been useful.. elsewhere.
Hi Tony
Just caught up… wishing you all the best.
Matt
Hi Tony
Just caught up… wishing you all the best.
Matt
Might just as well do a degree in flower arranging. It will have the same relevance to earning a living.
What if you wanted to be a Florist?
Funnily enough this conversation is very much what the much-maligned ‘Media Studies’ was all about. It taught critical thinking, the ability to spot prejudices, preconceptions, assumptions and agendas wherever they come from. The subject was never about learning to spout Hoxton Tw*t nonsense. The reason it was once considered relevant was it might avoid kids growing up believing everything they read in the Daily Telegraph or the Morning Star just because their parents read them. The point being to avoid the transfer of political power to extremist ideologues through a combination of democracy and ignorance.
Some hate it.
I am sorry, I tried to resist the sitting target, I really did..
John, you were taught Latin, as opposed to inconsequential stuff?