JonesyJust noticed that I didnt state that those were official figures from UK Government source from the 2002/3 FY not this year.
Glitter,
I know what youre saying! Thats why I added the proviso:
(from whom accurate and reliable figures can be obtained)
🙂
JonesySeaHawk.
Wait could the withdrawn one then be the first german carriers – shared with the french.
A jointly run Franco-German carrier would be quite something to be aboard!. The engineering bays and ship systems would run like clockwork to true German precision. The Galley, Ships tailor and air operations run with Gallic flair, style and panache.
…and the wardroom would be a quiet and subdued place as no-one wants to get drunk and inadvertently mention the War!!! }>
I’d rejoin to get an exchange posting to that ship! 😀 }>
JonesyAmen to that Victor. Problem is shown in this table though:
1, USA
US$350.7 billion
2, Japan
US$42.6 billion
3, UK
US$38.4 billion
4, France
US$29.5 billion
5, Germany
US$24.9 billion
These are the top 5 biggest defence spenders (from whom accurate and reliable figures can be obtained) and we’re right up there with the Japanese and 10 to 15 BILLION US dollars in front of our European partners.
With that kind of statistic backing them up it is just too easy, for those politicians with just the right kind of bleeding heart, to point and shout about the inequities of one-legged ethnic bisexuals going without some form of social equality or other and how much more immediate their plight is compared to the evil nasty military who kill kids in godknowswhere-istan anyway.
The point that the NHS consumes twice the defence budget annually and is still apparently “chronically” underfunded (unlike the car park at my local NHS hospital that contains many very well funded Mercedes, Porsches and Jaguars!!!) is irrelevent. Or the fact that the nanny-state….whoops….I mean Social Security budget stood, in 2002, at a stupefying £109 Billion – over 4 times the defence budget!!!.
JonesyVictor,
Its about 2.6%. 2002/3 cash amount allocated to Defence was £24.6 billion.
JonesySteve,
the only problem I can forsee is….what do the MoD do if the US DoD decide not to go for STOVL F-35s?
That being the 500lb gorilla waiting to pounce out and clobber those in the CVF Project Team of course!. It will be very, very amusing to stand on the sidelines and watch the bunfight that would result from a B variant cancellation!.
BAe would go critical-mass with Rolls-Royce not far behind for the loss in work, both having a MAJOR stake in -35B!. It could be possible that, to stop some fairly colossal lawsuits, LockMart may license the F-35B design, as standing at cancellation, and let BAe finish it off on their own. With the MoD order and good potential for sales in Europe (thinking Spain and Italy naturally) and S.E Asia a mostly developed, tested, airframe with a possible order run of 250 plus aircraft might be tempting to finish off solo.
More likely though would be a strong incentive scheme, not least from the USN, for us to switch to F-35C and go CATOBAR. Offers of a few refurbed E-2s and free deck quals training would placate the RN pretty quick. The MoD could figure the range/precision strike capability into their FOAS “system of systems” probably to the utter horror of the Crabs (which is going to be another reason the RN would go for it! :)) so, if EMALS comes with -35C, they probably wouldnt howl too much. The biggie would be what LockMart could offer BAE and RR to cover the loss of the UK STOVL production line? A UK line for our planes plus some number of the USNs? Cant see it really!.
A lot will depend on the maturity of EMALS tech at the time as to the feasibility of that one as I just dont see us getting involved with steam cats again. So if STOVL JSF and EMALS both fail we end up in a nasty situation potentially. The only upside possibly being the chance to see some of the Defence Procurement muppets throwing themselves off the roof down at Abbey Wood! 🙂
JonesyYes it woud SeaHawk, no bad thing in itself and the Aeronavale used to operate Sea Venoms back in the 50’s IIRC (correction on that required I’m sure!) so there is precedent for us operating the others aircraft off carriers!.
This 1 British and 2 French carriers has been knocking around for years. First I heard of it was in 1999 and it got VERY short shrift back then as I recall and for both technical and political reasons. 4, nearly, 5 years later and having seen France’s French-interests-first stance over Iraq it looks just as ludicrous a concept.
Truth is though that, thanks to the same BAe people PILOTKerniggitGHT hates so much, the French don’t really need to come on board with our CVF programme anymore. We’ve already paid the French company Thales to design a 70% mature 60k ton carrier. Seeings as BAe cant do any better on their own Thales still have a hat in the ring and theyre finishing the design off with a view to it being “highly flexible”. For “highly flexible” read able to accept a couple of C13 catapults, a steam generation plant, and a 4-wire trap system. Et Voila un porte-avion beacoup de cheap!
Besides Her Majestys Treasury have now kicked into the old routine of “we cant afford carriers because were only a little island off the coast of europe” and are well on the way to “We no longer have an Empire to defend you know” to be followed up by “Missiles are going to make planes obsolete so you dont need fighters”….oops no sorry…weve already had that one!.
Anyway the French requirement has diverged strongly away from ours. The need a CATOBAR carrier possibly with nuke propulsion again, we need a conventional STOVL one. Now STOVL to CATOBAR or vice versa isnt necessarily a tricky problem in the design stage. Conventional to nuclear propulsion IS though, especially if your nuke plants arent as powerful as the conventional units to be replaced. Personally I think the French would be better off buying a repeat build of the Charles de Gaulle, incorporating all the lessons the first one taught them. They’ve invested a lot in the ashore support facilities for their PAN seems a bit dense for them not to build a second PAN, perhaps a bit bigger, that gives them some return on the investment.
JonesyPhil,
Go for it. See how many times this chap votes “British scum lackeys” under newly registered IDs. Might be quite amusing!.
😀
JonesyPhil,
Go for it. See how many times this chap votes “British scum lackeys” under newly registered IDs. Might be quite amusing!.
😀
Jonesybritish ares hated through europeans peoples, viewed as weak Lackeys! and lapdogs liars!
By whom in Europe precisely? The scandinavian countries? – nope, perhaps the eastern european countries? – nope, the Spanish maybe? The Italians then?. Who else, apart, from the French are calling us Lackeys in Europe?
…and, while I hate to stoop to your level, doesn’t it serve the interests of the French psyche to do this seeings as the world absolutely ignored them and, when they found that US/UK diplomacy may generate an outcome in the UNSC that they didnt approve of they promised a blanket veto. Why a blanket veto if you know you’re morally right? Why not counter the US and UK with the weight of your righteous arguments?
Being seen as a lackey wouldnt be nice if we were that, but, I can imagine that being seen as a tedious international irrelevance might be worse! 😉
Jonesybritish ares hated through europeans peoples, viewed as weak Lackeys! and lapdogs liars!
By whom in Europe precisely? The scandinavian countries? – nope, perhaps the eastern european countries? – nope, the Spanish maybe? The Italians then?. Who else, apart, from the French are calling us Lackeys in Europe?
…and, while I hate to stoop to your level, doesn’t it serve the interests of the French psyche to do this seeings as the world absolutely ignored them and, when they found that US/UK diplomacy may generate an outcome in the UNSC that they didnt approve of they promised a blanket veto. Why a blanket veto if you know you’re morally right? Why not counter the US and UK with the weight of your righteous arguments?
Being seen as a lackey wouldnt be nice if we were that, but, I can imagine that being seen as a tedious international irrelevance might be worse! 😉
JonesyHeathen bunch. No-ones mentioned:
“Lady in Red” by Chris de Burgh
“I’m not in Love” by 10cc
Classic smooch tunes. Both have worked at least once!
Slightly more up-to-date (and less corny) and just as effective:
“Drops of Jupiter” by Train
“Truly, Madly, Deeply” by Savage Garden
JonesyHeathen bunch. No-ones mentioned:
“Lady in Red” by Chris de Burgh
“I’m not in Love” by 10cc
Classic smooch tunes. Both have worked at least once!
Slightly more up-to-date (and less corny) and just as effective:
“Drops of Jupiter” by Train
“Truly, Madly, Deeply” by Savage Garden
JonesyWho has the http://www.keypublishing.co.uk domain then WM?.
I got in on http://www.keypublishing.co.uk/forum
Edit: Looks like a DNS issue as the .com address doesnt resolve to an IP address
JonesyWho has the http://www.keypublishing.co.uk domain then WM?.
I got in on http://www.keypublishing.co.uk/forum
Edit: Looks like a DNS issue as the .com address doesnt resolve to an IP address
JonesyOriginally posted by Hand87_5
No problem go ahead !!! Are ex-wifes eligible as well ? 😀
Gets my vote Hand and I’d happily send mine to get the flames going good and strong. Hows that song go? “Burn, baby, burn”!!.
On a positive note it seems my daughter has an overactive scrounging gene as we’ve just done the obligatory sweep of the neighbourhood and she has literally netted 5lbs of sweets!!!.
Come to think of it I’m now a little concerned that she’s been “demanding with menaces” while I’ve been stood in the street waving happily and thanking my neighbours for their generosity!!! :confused: 🙂
Sign In
